Swept Away.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
that whole thing about tarkin being higher then vader makes no sense at all to me..

vader is palps friggin apprentice, a sith lord. I dont think that anyone, no matter how much they did could possibly be higher up in rank and power then the person who palpatine had trained....

this always bothered me about ANH....

but its just another "lucas making up as he went along" deal....stupid lucas...lol

thats what i always thought too. How could Tarkin physically boss Vader around? If Vader disobeyed, what could he do about it? Hes a sith.

Sith, lol that was a variation of something JP said a little while ago.

He's a sith yes, but if you remember He MUST obey his master, so Palps probally just told him, "Darthy, when your at work youve gotta listen to tarkin....but your still my special lil guy dont forget that" 😱 😆

LMAO.....oh damn....."Darthy"

Yup, it is that simple. Tarkin is higher in the pecking order, which is how Sidious wants it.

So its not until the destruction of the Death Star that Vader becomes "the man" so to speak? I was wondering, why would he want a mere mortal with no force powers ahead of his more powerful apprentice?

Maybe because vader had no idea how to run government from day to day. Vader is a pitbull or top dog but Tarkin ran the day to day governmental policies of the Empire.

I don't think Tarkin is vaders boss! just the guy whos in charge of the DS! so he's all like "none of that on my watch" to Vader more like there equals! Only on the DS tho - anywhere else Darth would tell him to shove it!! 🤣 🤣

see i always thought of it like, Vader was a Sith apprentice, but he never held ANY rank as far as the Empire goes UNTIL the first DS blew up. But i still couldnt imagine why his bad ass would take orders from a old California Raisin.

Vader was meant to be nothing more than a thug, the muscle, at the time of ANH's creation. When ANH went to print, Darth Vader really was just an evil Jedi who killed Luke's dad.

It was only when the sequel came around did Lucas decide to add meat to the Vader character, making him second in command, more than the action taker - Vader became the political manipulator aswell.

It shows just how Vader wasn't really Lucas's creation, he more or less evolved into the supreme villain he is today, through mere chance and circumstance. The Darth Vader we all know and love is the best accident Lucas has ever made.

Lucas didn't know Star Wars was going to be a hit, he never planned Vader to be a mechanical man, he never planned on him being Luke's father, he never planned on him being in a "space suit" through the whole movie, he never planned on him being so well recieved. Vader becoming top dog was another thing Lucas didn't really plan either, it was just down to the fact Tarkin died and Vader didn't. Had Lucas had known that the sequels were going to be made, he wouldn't have had the DS in Ep VI, and things would have been very different. Tarkin holding Vader's leash in Ep IV is just because at the time, Vader didn't have too much importance - obviously things changed.

damn good explanation. But i always thought he had star wars mapped out...at least ANH thru ROTJ. But how hard is it to make that lie up, ya know? but cool, thanks...

Well subjekt, my friend, whether or not Lucas knew what he was doing the whole time is one of the biggest mysteries in the star wars series, he swears he always knew but then you have things like the luke/leia kiss in ESB that makes you wonder

Yeah i don't think it was all written before hand either. too many contradictions. Why R2-D2 doesn't remember Yoda on Degobah and well, tons of other stuff....oh well GL will say what he needs to in order to sound.....competent

another sign that genious lies dangerously on the side of insanity

Guys watch the DVD commentaries. Lucas says that Vader was originally written as a thug who killed Jedi and was kinda 2D.

Also, check out one of the original Star Wars scripts. Darth Vader is nothing but a man, kinda like Admiral Piett.

Darth Maul is also what Darth Vader was originally going to be - an evil Jedi killing machine, who happened to have killed Luke's father.

In the gap between ANH's success and during ESB's creation, Lucas came up with the whole father angle for Vader. Vader's character is also changed - becoming more cool and collected, and being thrust into the limelight as a political player, rather than being the muscle for a Moff.

Lucas really did make things up as he went along. Some things he always had planned - The whole Luke and Leia being twins deal was part of the original script of Star Wars about the Skywalker twins, a boy and a girl.

Lucas didn't write the saga word for word. He had a general idea, and because of certain circumstances, he had to cut and edit his original script, leave bits out etc. Then there were things like Darth Vader, who's character evolved by itself, rather than Lucas knowing where it would go from day one.

It's always quite amusing that Darth Vader is a huge accident (the reason he became a "mechanical man" was because the limitations of ANH meant that he would be boarding a space ship, rather than an exotic planet first, and so needed a space suit, Ben Burtt gave him the breathing sound - and only by ESB did Lucas come up with the idea he NEEDED the suit at all times because he was badly hurt). I mean, it was also obvious that the name "Darth" also changed in its meaning. In ANH - Darth Vader is his NAME, because at the time of writing, his name WAS Darth Vader. Darth as in "John" and Vader as in "Smith". Then at some point "Darth" became a TITLE like "Mr." It's full of changes.

You know what red that thing about Darth vader being a name is something exactly like i was gonna say, It is the only reason that Obi would call him darth during their duel in ANH he says "only a master of evil darth", that wouldnt make any sense unless it was considered his name at the time, he'd of called him vader otherwise, But yeah what your saying makes perfect sense