Yes of course there is the 3 in one aspect but they are also unique. It's more like they have direct communication with each other or are connected extemely close. It is something very interesting to ponder.
One way they are unique is because Jesus went back up to heaven and the holy spirit came in his stead. If they were EXACTLY the same there would be no point in that happening would there?
Originally posted by Echuu
Yes of course there is the 3 in one aspect but they are also unique. It's more like they have direct communication with each other or are connected extemely close. It is something very interesting to ponder.One way they are unique is because Jesus went back up to heaven and the holy spirit came in his stead. If they were EXACTLY the same there would be no point in that happening would there?
But you have two counters.
#1-Jesus said he'd send the holy spirit to help them, not literally of course.
#2-Jesus was getting them used to the fact that he could no longer just appear to them. Like Jesus doesn't work conversions by simply coming down to people and saying "convert". But rather through our examples and leadership that is "Christ inspired" (i.e. the Holy Spirit).
#3-Jesus is now at the throne of Heaven, the King of the Universe. As every king he has a mesenger. And that mesenger is the paraclete. Not because he's lazy but rather because of symbolism.
What do you mean three counters? As in examples I can come up with more.
God- the final judge and creator of the universe
Jesus Christ- Our savior, he is preparing a place for us in heaven; he is our mediator when God judges us.
Holy Spirit- Sent from Jesus after he ascended to heaven to be in his stead because he could not remain any longer on earth with us.
You also have to keep in mind that the three were revealed at different times, not at once, which further proves that they have a unique sense to them even though they are also 3in1.
Where would I vote if I'm a Taoist? I mean, I believe in a higher order to the universe, but I don't subscribe to any "god" or "goddess" figure(s). I don't consder myself a "Total Atheist," but I don't consider myself a "theist" as I don't hold belief in a singular entity (the Tao is not an entity.) which holds sway over the universe. So, where would I vote?
As an ex-christian, I think I can give you a good overview of why I lost my faith and settled in a comfortable state of Atheism. I had the very unfortunate experience of growing up in a pentacostal household, where my family spoke tongues, went to church every time the doors were open, the women were not allowed to wear make-up or pants, or to cut their hair. When I was 13 years old, my family and congregation could not BELIEEEEEVE that I had not yet been baptised and accepted Jesus into my heart, so in a sense they all made me feel severely obligated and mind raped me into doing so. They all told me that when I came up from being submersed in the baptismal waters, I would be dancing and speaking in tongues and yada yada yada. Well, when I didnt dance around like an idiot and speak in gibberish like a lush, thay all chastized me for not "being faithful enough" saying it didnt work because I didnt want it enough. Since that day I began questioning the whole "god" thing and analyizing things VERY carefully. The way I see it, is that thousands of years ago the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Aztecs, Indians, whoever...........had their pantheon of Gods/Goddesses and their religious manuscripts and they all KNEW that without a doubt that they were 100% right in their beliefs/faiths. Now here in the year 2005, we look at their beliefs and we call them mythology and chuckle at the "stories". Furthermore, ever seen the movie "Contact"? Jodie Foster says to try to imagine how infinitly vast the whole universe is. In cosmic terms we are a subatomic particle in a grain of sand on an infinite beach. If Earth is the only planet with life on it, like some Christians actually believe, then that is a BIG DAMN WASTE OF SPACE. We just made up religion. Religion is made by man, for man. To answer the questions that cant be answered: Where did we come from, Why are we here, and what happens when we die. Thats all it is. To ease the fear of not knowing. I dunno, maybe Im rambling now, but I for one have never seen or felt a god of anykind to even remotely believe anymore. The thing that I fell I struggled with was the whole "God is love" thing, but I look at the world and i see all the horrible things around us these days. And for all those who might be wondering, I am a very happy individual with a loving family and friends who love and accept me for who I am, and I wouldnt trade my life for anything.
Originally posted by Impediment
As an ex-christian, I think I can give you a good overview of why I lost my faith and settled in a comfortable state of Atheism. I had the very unfortunate experience of growing up in a pentacostal household, where my family spoke tongues, went to church every time the doors were open, the women were not allowed to wear make-up or pants, or to cut their hair. When I was 13 years old, my family and congregation could not BELIEEEEEVE that I had not yet been baptised and accepted Jesus into my heart, so in a sense they all made me feel severely obligated and mind raped me into doing so. They all told me that when I came up from being submersed in the baptismal waters, I would be dancing and speaking in tongues and yada yada yada. Well, when I didnt dance around like an idiot and speak in gibberish like a lush, thay all chastized me for not "being faithful enough" saying it didnt work because I didnt want it enough. Since that day I began questioning the whole "god" thing and analyizing things VERY carefully. The way I see it, is that thousands of years ago the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Aztecs, Indians, whoever...........had their pantheon of Gods/Goddesses and their religious manuscripts and they all KNEW that without a doubt that they were 100% right in their beliefs/faiths. Now here in the year 2005, we look at their beliefs and we call them mythology and chuckle at the "stories". Furthermore, ever seen the movie "Contact"? Jodie Foster says to try to imagine how infinitly vast the whole universe is. In cosmic terms we are a subatomic particle in a grain of sand on an infinite beach. If Earth is the only planet with life on it, like some Christians actually believe, then that is a BIG DAMN WASTE OF SPACE. We just made up religion. Religion is made by man, for man. To answer the questions that cant be answered: Where did we come from, Why are we here, and what happens when we die. Thats all it is. To ease the fear of not knowing. I dunno, maybe Im rambling now, but I for one have never seen or felt a god of anykind to even remotely believe anymore. The thing that I fell I struggled with was the whole "God is love" thing, but I look at the world and i see all the horrible things around us these days. And for all those who might be wondering, I am a very happy individual with a loving family and friends who love and accept me for who I am, and I wouldnt trade my life for anything.
Well said. And congratualtions on being able to step outside of the ideals forced on you your entire life. I did much the same thing with catholocism. In studying the different religions(granted over the course of a 12 year catholic education, and from an enforced catholic stand point) I've found that at least catholocism is structured in a human oriented way. It is the least hypocritical of all the christ based religions. It provided the most loop-holes, which in my opinion, is like a built in admission of the opinion that religion was created for man, by man.
But for me, the key moment was when the Bishop of our diocease came to visit my high school. He gave this long speech about helping the needy in our community, he talked about Mother Theresas funneral(which he had just returned from) and about how we are all called to lead a life of service and sacrifice in favor of the more needy in our community. Then, he addressed how kind all of us had been to him on his "all too infrequent" visit and as a gesture of gratitude, we would all have the very next Friday off of school. The crowd cheered and clapped and I'm sure people in the crowd were glad to be catholic. When it was all over with, he took off his pointy hat and got into his brand new Mercedes and drove off into the sunset...no doubt to one of the 4 homes he had control over, staffed with dozens of clerical assistants to act as butlers, maids and cleaning personnel. Was this the call to service they heard the moment they decided to "give their lives to god?" Dusting an antique table in the hallways of some oversized private estate owned by the catholic church? When the Bishop called for us to give more, do more and feel more for the needy in our community; does that exclude riding around in a brand new Mercedes, while others in the community went without food? How many "needy families" could have been fed with the money it cost to purchase that car? And the Pope! For god's sake, he lives in his own gold plated city! I understand that he's an important political figure on the world stage, but the president is more important than the Pope, and he doesn't have a golden city all to himself and his followers. And, I haven't quite put my finger on it; but the fact that the Swiss guard is the Pope's personal guard and Switzerland is where all the money is... Okay, that last part was a joke. But, the hypocrisy in the thought, deed and creed of the Catholic church is outdated, overly lavish and self serving.
Why is the Catholic church growing by leaps and bounds in third world countries? For the same reason you mentioned in your post about looking back on the ancient religions and considering them archaic. Because no one is educated in these third world countries. They live in shit and their old beliefs are made to seem that way by the modern luxury of clean water provided by the Catholic church...and christianity as a whole.
Hmmmm, I had a rather intresting discussion with a guy at uni today, who said that "Science without religon is lame" hmmm, as a scientist, (student one, but still a scientist lol) i'm beginning to dislike them.
Scientist's were murdered and worse pre 1600, because the church thought they were uneffical. Hmm, mebby scared the truth will come out?
I think that the two example of Impediment and Captain Fantastic are good examples of stepping out but also good example at how some churchs totally screw up everything that Jesus taught.
One thing thats ridiculous about the pantheon and what not is that those Gods they worshiped were just as bad as humans as far as immorality. The only thing that really seperated them from humans was their supernatural ability or likeness; behavior was basically the same.
I've also been raised in a Pentecostal church until age 14/15. I never could dance or speak in tongues...They do teach that if certain things DON'T happen to you whether it's a healing or what ever, then you don't have enough faith..If bad things start happening, then there are demons attacking you...Demons, demons everywhere...I started studding different religions to get to what the truth was, and came to the conclusion that the Christian religions were probably redone paganism..There is much history to show that, though I do believe that Jesus was real, but that he could have been distorted by the church. I do, however, believe that there is a God...There is just too much proof on how perfectly things fit together...
NO!! Don't say that.....
Lol..
YES..According to my poor step-mother..there was a demon in the house..and yup, my room was in the basement. 😕
Also, according to her, my dads work partner had one, and it jumped into my dad...Of course being a rebellious teen, I also had one...I had to visit her pastor to prove I didn't have one...Oh..lets see, my friends van kept breaking down, so it to had a demon..I tell ya, they're everywhere.
WATCH OUT! They'll get you to if you go to a Pentecostal church devil2
..Sorry if that offends anyone...just my experience...
so sad..
I still do consider myself a Christian, just a little different... If I told them what I think, I'm sure they would all pray for me, cause I'M A HERETIC.
The one thing that's got most people confused in the modern day world, is the direct translations of ancient times into modern times.
For example I would strongely agree the immediate seperation of a Pentacostal religion, but not an abandonment of the moral foundations. The foundations are the Christ like ethics, (i.e. Love you neighbor, and love God), the society ethics (ten commandments), and the self ethics ("Unto thee cause no personal harm, and maintain yourself pure. For you are the temple of God, and his Holy Spirit.)
If you do this, you can call youself a child of God. But when you are persecuted by your friends, family, and society and at times you feel like your going to die, don't and just keep walking. Because the way how I see it, is that if your doing what's right, it should get even more tougher. If your doing what's wrong, God will stop you along the path and tell you where to go.
Sometimes, to find happiness an union with God, we have to speperate with God. But when we finally find our anwer to our doubt, and happiness in our life, it will be when we find union with God.
What you have to ask yourself is, What is the union of God?.
What I have to ask myself is, "Will I shut my ears to the world, with their arrogant cries that Christianity is untrue and anyone who is a Christian is an unscientific fool, a homophobe, a judgmental bastard? Shall I put my faith in the One I know will protect me and welcome me into His arms when I dictate? Or shall I follow the crowd and scientific community, renouncing my faith while leaning on the wisdom of men?"
Call me ignorant, unlearned, idiotic, and moronic; tell me I'm just deluding myself. Jeer at me, saying that my religion is a crutch and that I'm the cause of so many problems. Go ahead and despise me.
We'll see who is laughing when we're dead.