Human achive anything.
Many things we use in our daily lifes, were once considered impossible, but now there´re commun. Once my father told me that there is always a hidden way to fix the impossible.
Great scientists has demostrated that is impossible to travel that fast, but remember they´re human, and human made mistakes.
I really believe there is a way to travel speed light, we just have to find out how.
Maybe the so called quantum theory of gravity which is yet to be discovered gives us a way to reach the speed of light !
But for what science knows right now, it is interessing that at the speed of light, time and space does not exist. A photon will see the world just like a picture, frozen in the time !
As for the mass of a photon, we could give a value to its mass using some equations, but that would be just a number, it don´t have physical significance since anything with a mass will require infinite energy to reach the speed of light. Personally, I think that the famous Einstein´s equation that relates mass with energy is only valid in some cases, but for a photon its not valid.
Re: Why traveling at the speed of light will destroy the universe!!!
Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )
The infinite mass as concerns FTL travel I think has to do with the idea that you will need an infinite amount of energy to accelerate a body to the speed of light because of space time-dilation. I don't think it has anything to do with gravity. The reason Eistein said it isn't possible is because of the inifite energy required, not because of gravity.
Re: Why traveling at the speed of light will destroy the universe!!!
Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )
Since when was the speed of light infinite?
Re: Re: Why traveling at the speed of light will destroy the universe!!!
Originally posted by DarkAge
Since when was the speed of light infinite?
Yeah I must concur that light speed is not infinite.
If it was then it could not be calculated nor even picked up and
interpreted by any kind of machinery none to man.
Now warp speed is interesting. Instead of propelling oneself through "space" why not rearrange and fold time around you much like a fast forward on a dvd to get where you go.
Question is how in God's name do you even begin to build a machine to do that?
Originally posted by qubit
Photons are strange in that they don't exhibit exclusively partical or wave behavior. Actually, light does carry mass without volume. That is the theoretical basis for solar sails.
But when light is deflected by gravity it is because of the spacial deformation that light must follow even if it doesn´t have a mass, and if it had a mass it could not reach the speed of light. But it is possible to associate an energy to light(obviously) by the Planck´s equation, and we just can´t associate that energy with a mass.
Obs: This last statement I´m not so sure, but nothing was yet proved on science about that subject.
Returning to the forums subject, I would say that if mass becomes infinte, it will require a quantum theory of gravity to tell us if it is possible to reach the speed of light, because with a infinite mass we become a black hole, and black holes require quantum theories of gravity to be well understood.
If you take a peek at the Einstein equations a black hole has at its centre a singularity which has infinite mass (and zero volume). That should equal infinite gravity, but it does not.
It’s correct that as we understand gravity and speed of light an object with mass greater than zero would never be able to reach the speed of light.
Debbiejo> There are basically two types of particles in the Universe. Matter and force-carrieres. Light-particles, photons, are force-carries (of the electromagnetic forces) so we humans, which are matter, are not made of light-particles.
R355UR3CT>That physicists mess around with photons and slow them down, does not change the fact that the SPEED of LIGHT (c which equals some 300.000 km/h) is the universal top-speed in the Universe. It’s not like we’re suddenly capable of reaching that speed, simply because a scientist slowed some light down.
Cyd> That we once thought it would be impossible to travel at, say, the speed of sound, is another thing than reaching the speed of light. Back then, scientists did know that SOME things went faster than the speed of sound (the Earth around the sound for example).
But we have NEVER observed a massive object travelling at the speed of light. If it was possible in the Universe, we should have seen it by now.
But there are of course technology. I think in terms of worm-holes or the Dune-idea. Foling space.
Atlantis001> “Personally, I think that the famous Einstein´s equation that relates mass with energy is only valid in some cases, but for a photon its not valid.”
Oh! I think there are some misunderstands somewhere.
The particle-wave duality is not the same as E=mc^2. This latter equation IS valid fro a photon. It can turn into an electron and a positron. The energy of the photon is converted into mass and kinetic energy. The particle-wave duality speaks of the fact that A QUANTA can act as both a particle AND as a wave.
[i]
Atlantis001> “Personally, I think that the famous Einstein´s equation that relates mass with energy is only valid in some cases, but for a photon its not valid.”
Oh! I think there are some misunderstands somewhere.
The particle-wave duality is not the same as E=mc^2. This latter equation IS valid fro a photon. It can turn into an electron and a positron. The energy of the photon is converted into mass and kinetic energy. The particle-wave duality speaks of the fact that A QUANTA can act as both a particle AND as a wave. [/B]
I know that the particle-wave duality is not the same as the mass-energy equivalence made by Einstein. I meant that the energy associated to light cannot be associated to a mass(so light doesn't have a mass, and mass-energy eq. cannot be made in this case), we could use E=mc^2 to obtain a value to its mass but it doesn't have any physical meaning.
Originally posted by Atlantis001
I know that the particle-wave duality is not the same as the mass-energy equivalence made by Einstein. I meant that the energy associated to light cannot be associated to a mass(so light doesn't have a mass, and mass-energy eq. cannot be made in this case), we could use E=mc^2 to obtain a value to its mass but it doesn't have any physical meaning.
Hi Atlantis001
Light in motion has mass, but at rest the mass is zero. If light changes speed by going through water, does it's mass change. If the answer is yes, then E=mc^2 does matter. If the answer is no, then you are correct.
The mass does not change !
The energy of the light just only depends on its frequency(which is given by Planck´s equation E=h*f, where h is a constant and f=frequency).
But when light goes throught water its frequency does not change, and consequently its energy and mass(or at last the number you can obtain for m, by using E=mc^2).
Re: Re: Why traveling at the speed of light will destroy the universe!!!
Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )
Originally posted by DarkAge
Since when was the speed of light infinite?
If you read the original post no where is it stated the speed of light is infinite.
1.
because matter can not be created or destroyed
who the hell told you that.......energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. It's quite easy to destroy matter.
2. Black holes do not have infinite gravity. Infact, not all have the same gravitational pull. The gravitational pull is directly dependant upon the mass of the object that once rested in that space.
3. Travelling at the speed of light is impossible. As mentioned by others, as an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite........requiring infinite energy, which does not exist and is impossible to create (see #1).
4. The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second ........I didn't see it asked anywhere but somebody was talking about infinite or something.
5. The originator of this thread is a bit off. The STRENGTH of the the gravitational pull caused by infinite mass would be infinite.......not it's range. It would not simply "implode the universe". It would merely attract anything (no matter the mass of the object) close enough to be affected by it. It is actually quite possible that the very center of the universe has infinite gravity.......that galaxies are all orbiting around it (just like a solar system)..........at different speeds (based on the individual mass of the galaxies) to account for spacial separation between them that is often brought up in the "the universe is ever expanding outward from the big bang" theory.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
1.who the hell told you that.......energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. It's quite easy to destroy matter.
2. Black holes do not have infinite gravity. Infact, not all have the same gravitational pull. The gravitational pull is directly dependant upon the mass of the object that once rested in that space.
3. Travelling at the speed of light is impossible. As mentioned by others, as an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite........requiring infinite energy, which does not exist and is impossible to create (see #1).
4. The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second ........I didn't see it asked anywhere but somebody was talking about infinite or something.
5. The originator of this thread is a bit off. The STRENGTH of the the gravitational pull caused by infinite mass would be infinite.......not it's range. It would not simply "implode the universe". It would merely attract anything (no matter the mass of the object) close enough to be affected by it. It is actually quite possible that the very center of the universe has infinite gravity.......that galaxies are all orbiting around it (just like a solar system)..........at different speeds (based on the individual mass of the galaxies) to account for spacial separation between them that is often brought up in the "the universe is ever expanding outward from the big bang" theory.
😕 Law of conservation of matter: matter cannot be created nor destroyed least thats what I learned in school but maybe those books were out of date.
Originally posted by The Omega
Atlantis001> Ah, then we are in agreement.Shaky> No, light does NOT have mass. Not even if it is slowed passing through and atmosphere of through water. E=hf=h(n/c), where h is placks constant, f the frequency of light, n its wavelength and c the speed of light.
Thanks...
I was just pointing out the conditions needed to make a point; it was so long ago that I don't remember the point and I'm too lazy to back read. However, at rest, a photon might have mass, but this is not known, no one can detect a photon at rest. According to what I've read, the current theories don't agree with observations in all cases. If light did have mass, then the primus in Relatively that an object with mass cannot travel faster than the speed of light is not true. The increase in mass would have a limit.