God vs. Science: The Inclusion of Creationism in School Textbooks?

Started by whobdamandog37 pages

It might be argued that Darwin would never have condoned this use of his "theory," but his own writings reveal profoundly racist implications. In the sixth chapter of his book The Descent of Man, Darwin predicted that eventually evolution would increase the gap between humans and the lower apes through the extinction of such "evolutionary intermediates" as gorillas and Negroes! Darwin declared that "the break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the Negro or Australian and the Gorilla" (The Descent of Man, Charles Darwin, 1871, p. 201).

In an effort to promote the evolution of "higher forms" of humans, Darwin's cousin, Sir Francis Galton, founded the Eugenics Movement. Eugenics is the "science" which seeks to improve the biological makeup of the human species by selective breeding.

Galton advocated the regulation of marriage and family size according to the genetic quality of the parents. He believed that if controlled breeding was applied to humans, as it was to farm animals, a perfect human breed could be developed. This concept of the "master race" was put into practice by Adolph Hitler in Germany in an effort to create a "pure Aryan race," while exterminating "inferior" Jews.

Learn more about the religion of "Darwinism" by clicking on the link below..

http://www.systemath.com/epistles/THERELIGIONOFDARWINISM.pdf

After you do that..please answer the following question..that question being..

Why can't Darwinian Evolutionary theories be defined as a religion?

because it's a theory:
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

It doesn't believe in a creator and governor of the universe, doesn't have a spiritual leader nor are is it devoted to one old never changing story

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Silly boy..Each "guideline" represents a seperate definition of the word religion. A religion doesn't need to be denoted by "supernatural powers" or a "creator" If you read the complete definition of the word..you would have seen that..next time if you attempt to disprove my point..make sure you include ALL the information supporting your argument..lol...

Anyway Evolution could be considered a "Religion" based on any three of those 3 definitions...now it's up to you to prove that it can't...


yes, and you accidently missed one of the biggest points of them all: besides having a spiritual leader, religion is all about the creator of the universe. that's what a religion is all about and that's one of the reasons that buddhism isn't a religion but a way of life: there are no gods.

and I say that all the purple is pink, now you prove it isn't 🙄

Originally posted by yerssot
It doesn't believe in a creator and governor of the universe, doesn't have a spiritual leader nor are is it devoted to one old never changing story

Religion is not defined by a "Creator(s)" ...nor is it defined by having a "spiritual leader"... I believe your misunderstanding the meaning of the word. It can be "defined" by any ONE or more of the following definitions.


Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

using any One of these definitions...Darwinism can clearly be classified as a religion..

Darwinian theories are principles that are pursued with zeal and concientious devotion..

It is a personalized belief system grounded in belief and devotion(worship)

It's spiritual leader was a man..who was essentially an outcast among his people..he "preached" erhemm.. taught a fanciful tales of beasts tranforming into to men..and that the "white" male represented the pinnacle of evolutionary perfection...


buddhism isn't a religion but a way of life: there are no gods.

and I say that all the purple is pink, now you prove it isn't 🙄

lol..you are very ignorant..Buddhism is a religion..lol...whoever fed you that line has no idea what they are talking about...let me repeat this one more time..so that you understand...


A religion does not have to be defined by a "Creator"...nor does it have to be defined by a "spiritual leader"...

okay..I'm done. Please make sure you get your information from someone who knows what they are talking about next time.. 😆 😆

Originally posted by whobdamandog
lol..you are very ignorant..Buddhism is a religion..lol...whoever fed you that line has no idea what they are talking about...let me repeat this one more time..so that you understand...

[b]
A religion does not have to be defined by a "Creator"...nor does it have to be defined by a "spiritual leader"...

okay..I'm done. Please make sure you get your information from someone who knows what they are talking about next time.. 😆 😆 [/B]

No, you are ignorant. Buddhism is a philosophy of ethical behavior, I would know considering that I am a practicing Buddhist. 🙄

Buddhism falls under any one of these following categories..


A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Practicing Buddhists like yourself do not like to use such a term to describe it..but Buddhism is a religion none the less...go do a search on google..or go to the library or bookstore..I gaurantee you'll find many books on Buddhism in the "religious" section..

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Buddhism falls under any one of these following categories..

[b]
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Practicing Buddhists like yourself do not like to use such a term to describe it..but Buddhism is a religion none the less...go do a search on google..or go to the library or bookstore..I gaurantee you'll find many books on Buddhism in the "religious" section.. [/B]

Buddhism holds no beliefs regarding a "supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe," and therefore, is not a "personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship."

Buddhism can be described as a "set of beliefs, values, and practices," however, Buddhism does not regard Buddha as a spiritual leader, but simply as one who discovered "the way."

Buddhism is not a "cause, principle, or activity" but a philosophy.

Buddhism does not qualify as a religion according to any of the definitions you provided. Just because lay persons like yourself classify Buddhism as a religion does not mean that it is.

I think I don't have to reply to your answer about buddhism, others fielded that one already and are quite right in it.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Religion is not defined by a "Creator(s)" ...nor is it defined by having a "spiritual leader"... I believe your misunderstanding the meaning of the word. It can be "defined" by any [b]ONE or more of the following definitions.


Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

using any One of these definitions...Darwinism can clearly be classified as a religion..

Darwinian theories are principles that are pursued with zeal and concientious devotion..

It is a personalized belief system grounded in belief and devotion(worship)

It's spiritual leader was a man..who was essentially an outcast among his people..he "preached" erhemm.. taught a fanciful tales of beasts tranforming into to men..and that the "white" male represented the pinnacle of evolutionary perfection... [/B]


Darwin is NOT a spiritual leader and he certainly doesn't get worshiped. It's not cause they name the theory after him, that they go on their knees and suck up to the mighty Darwin to get into Science-heaven. He had an idea, tested it, and now others are constantly refining it.

so the only thing you're tripping over is:
"A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."?
by the same reasoning, a student who studies (activity) with conscientious devotion or zeal is a religion too...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Buddhism can be described as a "set of beliefs, values, and practices,"


A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Both sentences sound about the same to me..now your just trying to play with wording.

Belief can be used synonomously in place of "principle"...and activity can be used synonomously in place of practice..the words mean the same thing...lol..good try though...


Buddhism is not a "cause, principle, or activity" but a philosophy.

more wordplay..refer to response above...


Buddhism does not qualify as a religion according to any of the definitions you provided.

Yes it does. Go to any website..bookstore..or ask any religious scholar and they will tell you it is. You are welcome to your personal opinion however.

so because this doesn't fit your idea, it's all a wordplay?

ow, and PLEASE go talk to a decent religionteacher, (s)he'll educate you

Creationism is factually NOT science, as such, it is blatantly wrong to teach it in a science classroom by lying to the children in the class by implying that it is, somehow, scientific.

You can't compare evolution and creationism at all, one is backed by educated theories that have scientific evidence (evolution) and one has no scientific evidence (creatinism). Creationism is purely faith based, and also largely contradicted by science, thus to force school to falsely teach creationism as science must not be done.

Again, Creationsim is factually NOT science, thus, it can't be taught in a science class, end of story.

The "fact" that no "transitionary fossils" or "missing links" have been found completely discredits the theory of Evolution Alpha. With that being said, anything else found that is stated to be evidence supporting Darwins' theory is just speculation and conjecture.

Scanning back through this thread, I've seen some people throwing around a really poor argument. "Well, there's no missing link fossil that has been found yet, thus, evolution is false". This is an utter load of shit created by desperate creationalists to try and discredit evolution.

Just because one part of the theory hasn't been found to be factual yet, doesn't mean the theory is void. There is many other fossils that can be dated, using scientific methods, millions of years ago (dino fossils) which directly supports evolution as far as science is concerned.

The argument is invalid, it's baseless. Basically, you're saying exactly what I made fun of earlier in the thread. "Well, evolution isn't factual, thus is must be false and creationism is just as valid scientifically". It's not.

Evolution IS a scientific theory, that is backed by scientific evidence. Seeing as it's based on science, it should be taught in a science classroom. Creationism is based soley on faith, not science. Thus it makes no sense to teach creationism in a science class.

Just because the missing link hasn't been found yet doens't mean anything other then it just hasn't been found yet. The evolution theory is still scientific, where as creationism isn't.

Originally posted by BackFire
You can't compare evolution and creationism at all, one is backed by educated theories that have scientific evidence (evolution) and one has no scientific evidence (creatinism). Creationism is purely faith based, and also largely contradicted by science, thus to force school to falsely teach creationism as science must not be done.

You should really do more research on the terms that you use..

Much like Creationism...the Macro - Evolutionary theory is more theistic than it is scientific..no "valid" evidence has been found supporting this theory. All of the alleged "transitional fossils" found supporting this theory have been relegated to being forgeries or to being members of a specific already known species of plant, animal, etc...It's scientific model is very illogical..and contradicts itself in many different ways.

Although philosophical, the creationist theory accepts all fields of natural science...It's sceintific model is logical..and doesn't contradict itself in anyway shape or form. To suggest that it does is pure ignorance...

I would also like to add that Creationism does support the scientific process known as "Adaptation"(micro -evolution)


Just because one part of the theory hasn't been found to be factual yet, doesn't mean the theory is void.

That's a very simple minded rationale..and can be applied to any theoretical argument. I could use that exact same argument to validate Creationism as well..


There is many other fossils that can be dated, using scientific methods, millions of years ago (dino fossils) which directly supports evolution as far as science is concerned.

No one is debating the existance of Dinosaurs. Anyway this is a moot point, Dinosaur fossils do not support the Macro - Evolutionary theory in anyway shape or form. To state that they do is pure ignorance.


Evolution IS a scientific theory

Your wrong once again. I'm assuming you mean Macro - Evolution. However you do have the right to your opinion..and I respect it.

You should really do more research on the terms that you use..

Much like Creationism...the Macro - Evolutionary theory is more theistic than it is scientific..no "valid" evidence has been found supporting this theory. All of the alleged "transitional fossils" found supporting this theory have been relegated to being forgeries or to being members of a specific already known species of plant, animal, etc...It's scientific model is very illogical..and contradicts itself in many different ways.

Although philosophical, the creationist theory accepts all fields of natural science...It's sceintific model is logical..and doesn't contradict itself in anyway shape or form. To suggest that it does is pure ignorance...

I would also like to add that Creationism does support the scientific process known as "Adaptation"(micro -evolution)

Science contradicts creationism in many ways. For example, there are fossils that are far older then 6,000 years old. According to creationism, the earth is 6,000 years old.

It's very questionable and debatable whether creationism is logical, not to mention this is nothing more then opinion, seeing as, as far as I, and many other people (including the majority of scientists) can see, the belief of the earth being created in 6 days is anything but logical, which is what is believed by creationalists.

That's a very simple minded rationale..and can be applied to any theoretical argument. I could use that exact same argument to validate Creationism as well..

The difference is there is NO factual scientific evidence of creationism, if there is, please let me know what they are, and how exactly they are scientific. There is some scientific evidence to back up the evolution theory, such as the fact that, as I mentioned above, there are fossils that are, according to creationism, older then the earth.

You could use the exact same argument to validate your belief in creationism, but you can't, in any reasonable of sound way, argue that creationism is in any way, shape or form, science. Too believe otherwise is ignorance and bullshit. Again, it's based on faith and religion, not science.

No one is debating the existance of Dinosaurs. Anyway this is a moot point, Dinosaur fossils do not support the Macro - Evolutionary theory in anyway shape or form. To state that they do is pure ignorance.

I brought up dino fossils because they contradict creationism in that they are, according to scientific methods, older then 6,000 years old.

Your wrong once again. I'm assuming you mean Macro - Evolution. However you do have the right to your opinion..and I respect it.

You're wrong by denying evolution as a scientific theory, how is it NOT a scientific theory? It's based on the knowledge we've gotten through modern science, there's a reason why the vast majority of scientists believe in evolution, because it's backed logically by unbiased science. Which is more then we can say about creationism. The only scientific backing for creationism is through logical and argumentative fallacies, such as twisting facts and using assumptions and the whole "well, evolution isn't fact, so it must be false and creationism must be true", all the while believing that the earth was created in 6 days 6000 years ago, despite science proving this wrong.

Creationism isnt' science, and it's crucial for it to stay out of science text books. I'm not against teaching it in school, do it in History or something, but giving it credibility in a subject that it has no credibility in, is not only insulting to what science is, but it's also a lie, something those pesky, pushy creationists are supposed to be against.

Not to mention the teaching of creationism goes against the first ammendment by forcing children to learn about religious belief in a public school. Freedom from religion, people.

Originally posted by BackFire
Science contradicts creationism in many ways. For example, there are fossils that are far older then 6,000 years old. According to creationism, the earth is 6,000 years old.

The claim that Dinosaur/other fossils are millions of years old is really theoretical, and is not scientifically sound/accurate claim. Many of the fossils ages were determined by Carbon dating..which hasn't yet been proven to be a completely accurate measurement tool. Carbon dating can only semi accurately trace fossils that go back to a few thousand years. To state that fossils have been found over 6000 years old is grossly incorrect, seeing as how there is no definitive/accurate process that can be used to determine the age of objects over several thousand years of age.


It's very questionable and debatable whether creationism is logical, not to mention this is nothing more then opinion, seeing as, as far as I, and many other people (including the majority of scientists) can see, the belief of the earth being created in 6 days is anything but logical, which is what is believed by creationalists.

I'm not a 7 day eventist, nor am I a supporter of the particular belief system of the earth being created "literally" in 7 days. I believe that from a metaphorical standpoint..the "days" represented are actually thousands of years. If you are familiar with Creationist literature/history..you'll see that there is evidence to support this claim.

Also refer to Einstein's scientific theory of relativitity. It cleary states...

"..the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

Thus time itself..is really only something that is used for man's purposes. This also supports the notion that "one" day can hypothetically represents any number of "human" years to an intelligent creator...


The difference is there is NO factual scientific evidence of creationism, if there is, please let me know what they are, and how exactly they are scientific.

Einstein's theory of relativity

All natural/earth sciences

Dead Sea Scrolls, Roman Literature and other historical documents, which support creationist claims/theories.


There is some scientific evidence to back up the evolution theory

Adaptation is a scientific fact..Macro - evolution is a theistic principle..and has no valid evidence supporting it. But believe what you wish..


such as the fact that, as I mentioned above, there are fossils that are, according to creationism, older then the earth.

Not true..refer to above respone explaining the inaccuracies with carbon dating..


You could use the exact same argument to validate your belief in creationism, but you can't, in any reasonable of sound way, argue that creationism is in any way, shape or form, science.

I just gave you three scientific/historical theories/facts that support Creationism..refer to above..now tell me..other than your FAITH that Macro Evolutionary theory is the truth..what real evidence do you have to supporting it?

Answer: None.

The definitive and most important evidence supporting your theory is "missing..." so to speak. Thus any other assumption you make about Darwinian theory is clearly based on your FAITH in its principles..and not on any scientific facts or evidence...or to put it in your own words..


Too believe otherwise is ignorance and bullshit. Again, it's based on faith and religion, not science.

I brought up dino fossils because they contradict creationism in that they are, according to scientific methods, older then 6,000 years old.

This has already been adressed..refer to carbon dating above once again..


You're wrong by denying evolution as a scientific theory, how is it NOT a scientific theory? It's based on the knowledge we've gotten through modern science, there's a reason why the vast majority of scientists believe in evolution, because it's backed logically by unbiased science. Which is more then we can say about creationism.
Creationism isnt' science, and it's crucial for it to stay out of science text books. I'm not against teaching it in school, do it in History or something, but giving it credibility in a subject that it has no credibility in, is not only insulting to what science is, but it's also a lie, something those pesky, pushy creationists are supposed to be against.

Again all of this is your OPINION..and I respect it...


Not to mention the teaching of creationism goes against the first ammendment by forcing children to learn about religious belief in a public school. Freedom from religion, people.

Again your wrong..teaching of creationism does not go against the first amendment..teaching an specific theistic religion does. (ie Christianity, Buddhism, Hindiuism, etc) Creationism is as much of a scientific theory as Darwinism is a religion. Both should be allowed to be taught in science class.

Science, although not absolute in it's tangibility, has a greater grounding in reason than 'faith'. Therefore, Science books should only contain science.

Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
Science, although not absolute in it's tangibility, has a greater grounding in reason than 'faith'. Therefore, [B]Science books should only contain science. [/B]

Creationism supports the exploration and study of all earth/natural sciences. The Creationist prinicipals make Science more tangible, by simply acknowledging that an intelligent being exists that created all forms of Natural Science, and of the Universe as a whole. The concept of Science in itself can not be proven by anything tangible..so it takes some degree of FAITH to believe in any theory applied to the origins of life. You can believe what you wish..but the Universe is to perfectly laid out to have formed from random circumstance. How do atoms even exist? How did these small particles that make up the universe come to be? These types of questions can not be answered or comprehended by simple scientific hypothesis/theories/or mathematical equations...

Originally posted by whobdamandog
How do atoms even exist? How did these small particles that make up the universe come to be? These types of questions can not be answered or comprehended by simple scientific hypothesis/theories/or mathematical equations...

But they can by saying that some big dude with a beard ordered it!?!?!?!?! ARGHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Fin.

Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
But they can by saying that some big dude with a beard ordered it!?!?!?!?! ARGHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Fin.

No they could say something that would satisfy their ego's much more like....

5/3x delta 4/3.14 * infintiy = x^2 3!! = Creation Equation

It's that simple..man is now in control of everything!! Even his own existance/destiny..and he can now create his own universe!! 😄 😆