Intolerance

Originally posted by ushomefree

Eleven of the 12 apostles who knew the truth were executed (over a number of years) for their beliefs. Why would they die for a known lie?

Paul, a prominent persecutor of Christians, gave up wealth and status, and later died to tell the story after seeing the risen Jesus. Why?

In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus.

Why weren't the other writing of the gospels included? What about the other writing of Paul, James, and Thomas? And why didn't other sources ever mention Paul? Was Paul even real? You know the other gospels weren't included? because the church didn't like the Essenes and there were 3 sects mentioned by Josephus, the Pharisees, the Sadducee's,and the Essenes...The Essenes were probably the true Christians, but the church couldn't control a group that didn't believe in hell or believe that there should be a grand leader of a church. The church chose what scriptures to be permitted...It was grand editing.

debbiejo

Unfortunately, I am incapable of speaking intelligently about all aspects impacting the origins of scripture supporting the risen Messiah Jesus Christ.

When investigating events that occurred 2,000 years ago, it will obviously put strain on ones efforts to find truth in comparison to simply reading today's newspaper, watching the world news on television, or waiting for the next issue release of Time Magazine regarding an event that unfolded 24 hours ago.

Their is a vast difference, and yet the New Testament is complimented by 24,970 original manuscripts, some of which being found less then 100 hundred years ago. And, their remains an immense up roar about a God Man named Jesus Christ, who, over half of the world's population has heard in conversation.

You ask: "Why weren't the other Gospels included?" Is it possible that they were too fragmented to consider compilation amongst the rest of the manuscripts? Frankly, I've never heard of such a thing. Perhaps, I am still young in my studies?

Do you propose that the missing Gospels bring light to gross errors and fallacy contained in the Gospels we read today? What's the big secret?

Their was nothing romantic about being a Christian. People were martyred in the name of Jesus Christ and still are today. For such unwavering faith, their must have been tangible evidence that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Jaw-dropping evidence that is.

Stay with me.

If I publicly stated, that President Reagan was alive and well, and was seen shopping at the local grocery store, (even though I knew I could possibly spend the rest of my life in a room with padded walls) I would abruptly be labeled mentally disturbed, and local authorities would be notified. I would be mocked for years to come.

The end result however, would be the death of my faith. Nobody would believe in President Reagan's shopping spree at the local grocery store, due to the lack of evidence that supported my revelations.

Suppose a couple people took me seriously, provoked by the expression of shock stamped on my face, and agreed to investigate my claims I set before them. Now, the life and validity of my claims will be dictated by the evidence I provide them with correct? Yes, of course.

We park our cars, enter the local grocery store in an expedient fashion, and come face to face with President Reagan himself, alive and well, surrounded by a crowd of people in amazement. And we all became believers.

That ladies and gentlemen is what's required (for something as ridiculous, and unnatural as a dead man coming back to life) to be believed and passed along to others, regardless of the consequences... even death. And that is the story behind the resurrection of Jesus Christ!

Now, people in present times have had revelations powerful enough to stimulate followers and cults. A great example of such a feat is Charles Manson, and the Manson family. There are numerous other examples this extreme, and others less, to include: Elvis Presley and Tupac Shakur, not to mention the Lockness Monster.

But what all these examples have in common is that: They were short lived, because people know better. And secondly, the impact they had on the world can be compared to a millionaire loosing a one dollar bill. Because people know the truth, they refrain from entertaining such nonsense. People throw BBQs ever summer a never think twice about them.

And yet, so many people around the world have heard the story of Jesus Christ. You can sugar coat it all you want, but that is a pretty powerful statement in itself.

No work as survived and spread as the Gospel has. SOMETHING MAJOR HAPPENDED. There were no printing presses, no photocopiers, no quick ways to copy manuscripts. Nevertheless, the Gospel quickly expanded throughout the Roman Empire. Comprehending the scale of this vast explosion of hand-copied documents is only possible by comparing the number of extant New Testament manuscripts with those of other abundant documents.

Of historical works, PLINY THE YOUNGER has 7 original manuscripts, THUCYDIDES 8, HERODOTUS 8, GALLIC WARS 10, LLIAD 643 and the NEW TESTAMENT 24,970.

Having more surviving early manuscripts means having more cross-checks to verify accuracy. Today's Holy Bible is verified to a textual accuracy of 99.5 percent. Some biblical copies are old enough to show eyewitnesses' confirmation (made within 25 years of events). That's flash news in ancient times.

Earliest copies of other manuscripts don't even beign to compare. PLINY THE YOUNGER 750 years, THUCYDIDES 1,300 years, HERODOTUS 1,300 years, GALLIC WARS 1,000 years, and LLIAD 500 years. Why do some doubt biblical acccuracy, yet readily accept other, less reliable history?

Until this century, the earliest Old Testament copies were from about A.D. 1,000 (simular to typical historical works). Skeptics argued textual corruption was possible. Others argued miracles of prophecy, especially concering Jesus; were recorded centuries after Christ and were changed to fit the outcome of history.

Modern Archaeological discoveries soundly refute such claims. Thousands of much earlier documents now verify biblical accuracy.

Perhaps the most important Archaeological find in history is the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947-48. Discovered accidently by a Bedouin shepard searching a cave in the Qumran region near the Dead Sea, the scrolls have been hidden by the Essenes (a Jewish sect similar to the Pharisees and Sadducees) just prior to the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. It took almost 20 years to uncover all the scrolls and bring them together in one location.

The discorvery includes thousands of fragments and some complete scolls found in 11 caves. In total, about 800 scrolls have been identified, which include copies of every book of the Old Testament (except Esther), along with a number of other scrolls relevant to history and to the Essene community. Several scrolls exist in multiple copies. Many of the oldest scrolls (including the remarkably intact scroll of Isaiah) were written more than 200 years before Christ (long before the fulfillment of prophecies they contain about the coming Messiah).

In addition to the Dead Sea Scrolls, some of the most important biblical writings, of the thousands available, are the following:

Rylans Papyrus (A.D. 115 - A.D. 125), Bodmer Papyri (A.D. 150 - A.D. 200), Chester Beatty Papyri (A.D. 100 - A.D. 300), Codex Vaticanus (Early 300s) Codex Sinaiticus (Early 300s), and The Vulgate (A.D. 400).

Religon.... Created by man to inspire fear....

Think of it, you got a nation of christians, you've got a hopefully good willed no crime no teenage abortions no crap, well thats a lie. But you've got a perfectly well behaved - if misinformed - nation.

The only point i can possibly agree with you on is their absolutly nothign romantic about being a christian... Nothing!
You lose out on your humanity to believe in something which their is so very little proof for??

I do believe in a god, but i refuse to believe in christianity... People have been getting religon's wrong since the begining of time. Christianity.... Will die, in time.

AS long as any religon puts such pressure and holds on you, wishes you to forgoe your life, It will and quite rightly should fail. Christianity has been a blip through misinformed dark ages.

The wisest men in the world, would look at the situation outside the box... step out of the arena and view both sides. If you do... you will come to conclusion that there is a god of kinds... but he will not be taking a human form... and most certainly will not be preaching christianity.

Jedi KnightAlly

If I may say so, Christianity was not created, rather discovered. And what's all this talk about other world Religions I hear from people... as if they were as numerous as grains of sand on the beach?

The only conclusions I have learned to know is that there are only 2 world Religions: Islam and Christianity. Do the research, and you will find that the book of Koran was inspired by the Holy Bible some 800 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Eisegesis attitudes, distorted Bible scripture and Muhammad paved the way for Islam. Congratulations. They have a perverted version of the Holy Bible. And supposedly contains the Torah, which comes directly from the Holy Bible.

It's note worthy, that the book of Koran mentions Jesus and all His works and virgin birth, but rejects the resurrection.

Buddhism and many other so called Religions are mere philosophies and have no bearing on a creator, and are void of prophecy... not to mention secular history. And only the Holy Bible mentions a creation event.

I doubt Christianity will fade away in time, when it has already swallowed the hearts of 33 percent of the world's population. And what's so depriving of one's humanity in having faith in Jesus?

On what grounds would Religion be devised to create fear? In case you haven't noticed, dictator driven and totalitarian governments get the job done without Religion rather well. Violence is a sure motivator everytime.

Granted, I'll give you a few moments of human history where Religious beliefs had a part, but give me a break. Further discussion of this topic becomes political. And I don't want to talk about it.

But please, I don't mean to be rude. Share your resources with me.

and you will find that the book of Koran was inspired by the Holy Bible some 800 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The only conclusions I have learned to know is that there are only 2 world Religions: Islam and Christianity

I doubt Christianity will fade away in time, when it has already swallowed the hearts of 33 percent of the world's population.

Christianity was discovered? Oh no... I do believe there was someone who believed he was the son of god, who preached about christianity... Someone i thought you would have heard of... Jesus?? He preached about his great father and how everyone should worship him. That is how christianity came around.

A point, God's attitude change... How did he go from being a evil bugger of a god, to being a hippie? The continuity! Think about continuity!

I severly doubt that any of the Old testament is true... and i mean severely doubt.

My greatest resource is something every person has... Although some choose not to use it. My ability to question things. My ability to say, Why?
I mean by all means I would love to believe in god and jesus and all that stuff. But my sense's simply do not allow me to believe such materials.

In the computing world there is a term... Validation & Verification.....
Validation --- Check if its possible
Verification --- Check if its true

Christianity fails both tests.

why should a religon which continually changes what it's message live??? I do not know, i think it should die instead of "Oh it says that, but it doesn't mean that" Truely pathetic.

Fear? Hell? You will have eternal suffering if you do not believe our ways? How is that not inciting fear?

It is depriving of your humanity not to allow you to have relations with the person you love. Marriage is more a symbolistic ceremony now... Not a Religous ceremony. I think it is depriving of human nature to not allow someone to sleep with the one they love unless they are married.

Jedi KnightAlly

People having different views about things do not bother me, it's the manner it which they chose to present them does. Thank you for the decent conversation.

Still, I wish you would present facts. It sounds to me that you have an Eisegesis mind set, which basically means that you approach the Bible with a closed mind. The moment you looked at the Bible, you already had predetermined that is was false, and so naturally didn't take it seriously.

I'm just here for stimulating conversationl. Your statement regarding "fear by religion" was short sighted. The question was: What would be the point in man created a religion that would envoke fear in man?

Tell me anything in great detail. What has persuaded you away from Christianity factually speaking. I'm not really interested in opinion. I want as much fact as possible.

Don't you think my messages are atleast thought provoking? That's all I want from you guys. Square me away.

Maybe I expect too much from people, I don't know (ha ha ha)?

Please answer both of these questions above for me. If you honestly think my faith is empty... help me understand.

Not to be harsh Jedi KnightAlly, but numerous statements on your last message began with "I", or "My". And your telling me that your faith is factual and not self imposed philisophy? I'm just trying to understand.

As for the vast difference between the Old and New Testament, it has been expressed to me (not in great detail mind you) that God established a new covenent with makind, as with the situations regarding Noah's Ark.

God promised to never destroy mankind by use of floods ever again. Hence, the rainbow that we commonly see today symbalizes that according to the Bible.

I don't want to comment further. I lack knowledge to effectively answer that question, or bring purpose behind the comment.

Personally speaking, maybe God (in the Old Testament) had to establish authority much like a boss or parent would?

That way, when the new convenant in Jesus Christ is completed, mankind will undertstand and appreciate God's grace through Jesus Christ more fully, knowing that God's wrath is nothing to gamble with, and helps stimulate relevance to eternity in hell?

Again, I am just speculating. You should speak with priest or a Bible expert on the matter.

I cannot tolerate intolerance.......

Again, the word tolerance i really really hate.

To tolerate something means to put up with it. We shouldn't be 'tolerating' each other, but co-existing.

We shouldn't be 'tolerating' each other, but co-existing.

I explained in the same post -

to tolerate means to put up. So if you are annoying, im tolerating you. Im ''putting up with you'' meaning your behaviour is not OK, but im 'tolerating it''

Co-existing means - im coexisting with you, no matter what you are like. Im not tolerating im accepting your religion/sexuality/gender as part of you not something to be 'tolerated'.

To tolerate something means to not approve of it, but put up with it.

so in other words you say we shouldnt tolerate each other but just exist. caues if you have a differnt view you aint to be tolerated just put up with.

sounds very much like some agenda of a certain country in Europe that started out in 1933

Originally posted by finti
so in other words you say we shouldnt tolerate each other but just exist. caues if you have a differnt view you aint to be tolerated just put up with.

sounds very much like some agenda of a certain country in Europe that started out in 1933

Coexistence has a more positive connotation than tolerance. Are you having trouble understanding that