God was always there.here we go, yeah that is soooooo logical, but everything has to have a begining.
God was always there. But our feeble minds can not possibly grasp the magnitude that is God. That is the root of doubtt about the idea of god there is no doubt in my mind at all about that idea
About creation...It could honestly be meant as a metaphor....
Adam and Eve where spirits who partook of the fruit of the knowledge of being human and was casted out of the spirit world, heaven, or whatever you want to call it. They are working by the sweat of their brow because they are now human, and eve suffers with labor in having children cause now she is also human. Now they can no longer enter their past existence shown by the angel with the flaming sword who blocks the way. This view would be our existence before we enter our bodies of course.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Photos of auras have been taken and many people can sense them along with see them..It has been documented..Anyone can train themselves to be aware of them...During WWII psychics were used to find submarines...They found 10 out of ten...100%...They are still training them today...
As far as only Jesus healing people of their afflictions, Many people can and do do it...It's a process of training yourself. It's a gift that God has given all of the human race...
Thats not nesisarily true about the god thing but you ONLY balive in A god when in wicca the GOD and GODDESS both give eveeryone in the world this power and also GOD suposably stis around in heven when in wicca the gods are alsound us and in ourselves!!! 😛
REINCARNATION IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
THE BLIND MAN
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" John 9:1-2, NIV
The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life. This indicates that the pre-existence of the soul was a prevalent idea among the disciples, otherwise how could they have asked such an unusual question? Neither does Jesus ask them where they got such a strange idea. He does not marvel that they have presented him with such a foolish concept. Where did they get this idea? As we have seen in the "blind man" scripture and other scriptures, the concept of reincarnation was understood by Jesus and the disciples. They employed the concept in these discussions in a matter-of-fact way.
ELIJAH'S RETURN
Elijah the prophet is believed to have lived in the ninth century B.C.E. At the point of his death a fiery chariot with horses of fire took him in a whirlwind to heaven and he was seen no more (II Kings 2:11). Four hundred years later, Malachi closed the last lines of the Old Testament with a prophecy from God stating that God would send Elijah before the "great and terrible day of the Lord" comes (Malachi 4:5). The Jewish people were expecting Elijah to return as the necessary preface to signal the coming of the Messiah.
The disciples all felt that Jesus was the Messiah but they were puzzled. Where is Elijah? The disciples asked the Master about this and he told them that Elijah had already returned as John the Baptist. The first discussion of this is in Matthew, chapter 11.
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 11:11-15, NIV
The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. Matthew 17:10-13, NIV
The above scripture indicates that the disciples and Jesus believed in reincarnation. John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah. In an attempt to fit these scriptures into the orthodox view of one-life-only, some believe that Elijah never died as we know it because he went up in a chariot of fire, thus discounting John the Baptist as an instance of reincarnation. Their thinking is that Elijah did inhabit John the Baptist but it was not rebirth because Elijah had never died. For this "discounting" to really work, the Baptist would need to have returned in the same fiery chariot as a grown man. However, he was clearly placed in the womb of a human mother after which he had a very mortal and common birth. Jesus said he was "born of woman" and in Luke 1:13-17, an angel tells John's father, Zacharias, that John will be born to his wife Elizabeth... "And he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah." Others use this last line to say that John the Baptist was under the power of Elijah but was not the incarnation of Elijah. However, Jesus says in no uncertain terms that John is Elijah and not simply an ambassador of Elijah's power, "This is Elijah... He who has ears to hear let him hear" (Matthew 11:14-15). Also, Malachi does not say that Elijah will appear by proxy but that Elijah himself will return.
WHO IS THE SON OF MAN?
Yet another discussion between Jesus and the disciples underscores their belief in reincarnation.
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:15-16
The flow here seems to be that if a prophet were to appear he must be the incarnation of one of the prophets from the past and so Jesus is asking the disciples who the people think has incarnated as Jesus. The idea of the reincarnation of the prophets is taken for granted and the sole point of the question is to find out who the multitudes believe him to be. These scriptures indicate that, at least to Jesus and the disciples, the concept of reincarnation was common fare. Herod also heard that others were saying one of the prophets of long ago had reincarnated. This again indicates that such a belief in reincarnation was common at that time.
Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life. Luke 9:7-8, NIV
Hi all! You might find this interesting...
Dr. Ian Stephenson has done some groundbreaking studies into reincarnation. Below I've provided links...but I'll describe them in a bit...
Basically, he has traveled for decades (he's near death now) documenting cases of possible reincarnation. He's been able to document many more cases than simple chance could hope to account for...with many reincarnates being able to list things about their former life that no one else should know. He cites all examples, and only uses those cases where there is no possible (logical) way that the person involved could have been connected with the person they claim to be reincarnated as. His books (Stephenson's) are sometimes dull, but his findings are amazing.
His work includes mainly child recollections of past lives and hypnotic regression to past lives. Both offer valuable insights, and while more cases are available from countries that primarily believe in reincarnation, that can partly be attributed to the fact that Western societies would have a tendency to "sweep it under the rug" if a child cliamed to be someone else, since reincarnation is not as widely accepted as it is in many Eastern cultures. There are exceptions to this, of course, and I once read an amazing account of a reincarnate from Iowa who claimed to have formerly been a man in...I think Texas (if memory serves).
....Amazingly, I can't find a good link. Below are brief snippets beneath a book written by a man who investigated Stephenson's findings. The first one, though an Amazon site, is the better of the two and briefly summarizes Stephenson's work.
http://www.lauralee.com/index.cgi?pid=5627
Any of his books further extrapolate on the themes I talked about. Unfortunately, Dr. Stephenson’s’s books are out of print right now (to my knowledge). However, Return from Heaven by Carol Bowman describes Dr Stephenson’s work, as do the books in the above links.
I am a former Christian...and while I do not believe everything that some Eastern philosophies do about reincarnation, there is much more verifiable evidence for reincarnation than any Christian idea of "one life and done". Reincarnation certainly isn't provable....but what is when discussing religious beliefs?? I do not know whether or not reincarnation was buried by Christianity, and speculating on such things may be fruitless, as passages can be found for both sides and interpreted many different ways...but research such as this seems much more concrete to me than trying to uncover some Christian conspiracy. Thought this might add to the discussion...
-DM
A better site. If you scroll down it has not only a summary of Stephenson's work, but describes reincarnation as it exists in various cultures. Interestingly, it also details where reincarnation may have been present in early Christian thought (with writers like Origen).
Yes, and Origen was persecuting for that belief...I think, myself, he was on to something...It is interesting to note that the beliefs of others appear in ones arrival to Heaven...People see who they have worshiped or admired...Or angels...It's friendly and loving experience from what I've read...Thanks for the links...Hope they are read by eveyone and commented on.
Originally posted by debbiejoEzekial suggests that hell does not exist. Chapter 14 says indicates the wicked will die, not burn in hell.
Hell as a place of burning torment was instituted by the early Roman church when they brought in the pagans. The OT doesn't mention such a place, why?? The Jews don't believe it, why?? Because it was started back with the Babylonians and moved through the different pagan religions...Hell, or sheol, pit..etc..are all referring to the grave..The weeping and knashing of teeth can be taken a few ways. First you have to be sure that it wasn't added later by the church, as there were aprox. 100 or so different writings that were being considered. Only 4 were accepted. Others were also altered. It could also be that when someone died, everyone was in a place of weeping and knashing of teeth because of their sorrow. It could also be considered regrets on their life could of been...You need to trace "Hell", back to it historical roots...
Originally posted by markie
Ezekial suggests that hell does not exist. Chapter 14 says indicates the wicked will die, not burn in hell.
There are many passages that state that there is no hell, but a body only dies..The story of Job speaks of it.
Consider also the case of the righteous man Job, who suffered much. Wishing to escape his plight, he pleaded: "Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell [Sheol], and hide me till thy wrath pass?"# (Job 14:13, Douay Version) How unreasonable to think that Job desired to go to a fiery-hot place for protection! To Job, "hell" was simply the grave, where his suffering would end. The Bible hell, then, is the common grave of mankind where good people as well as bad ones go.
Originally posted by FeceMan1 Corinthians 12:28-30 (King James Version)
I don't mean to be a bitchy cynic, but I'm not believing any of that unless you can provide credible truth. I do not and will not believe in miracle healings unless I experience one myself.
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
Originally posted by debbiejoChristians make God sound like a sadist. I don't know if isaiah Talks about the devil or not but if it does even he will be brought to ashes. They say that passage has a two fold meaning but they agree it talks about the king of babalon too.
There are many passages that state that there is no hell, but a body only dies..The story of Job speaks of it.Consider also the case of the righteous man Job, who suffered much. Wishing to escape his plight, he pleaded: "Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell [Sheol], and hide me till thy wrath pass?"# (Job 14:13, Douay Version) How unreasonable to think that Job desired to go to a fiery-hot place for protection! To Job, "hell" was simply the grave, where his suffering would end. The Bible hell, then, is the common grave of mankind where good people as well as bad ones go.
Some do
Originally posted by FeceManThey have as nuch power as the people will give them. It's all mind control,It's based in the principle of believing. I think it's abuse of the power of the mind, Jesus said as a man believes in his heart so is he.
"Cool black magic"?Wiccans have no power. They might think they can do all sorts of things like summoning spirits to obey them, but they can't. All I've read about witches and their supposed powers is summed up by their responses: "I can do such-and-such, but I won't do it just to prove that I can."
Uh-huh. Like the aura-seers and other psychics. The Amazing Randi doesn't appreciate them or Wiccans.
Re: Some do
Originally posted by markie
I think it's abuse of the power of the mind, Jesus said as a man believes in his heart so is he.
That's an interesting quote cause...If a man thinks he can perform miracles, he can. And that's how we get many of our miracles today...Jesus was probably telling them the same just like when he said "If you have the faith of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain go into the sea, and it will....." What ever is in a mans heart..it will manifest. That's why he told them to "Chose the Kingdom"..
When you look at todays world, it's clear not many have chosen it.
http://www.spirit-works.net/spirit_speaksIII.htm
The Holy Bible, as we know it today, can be traced back to the fourth century A.D.
During that time, the emperor Constantine formed a council of historians and scholars (the Council of Nice).
The purpose of that council was to take all the loosely organized religious and historic traditions of the time and simplify them.
As a result of that council, many sacred documents concerning ancient mysteries and Jesus' teachings were modified, edited or secreted away for a privileged few (where they remain to this day).
The council produced a single document in A.D. 325... known today as the Holy Bible.
Many documents and historical writings have been edited out of our modern Bible... in addition to those deemed inappropriate by the Catholic Church in the fourth century.
In essence, much of today' Bible is someone else's version of what they want you to believe... and many fear-driven dogma's have resulted because of it.
Who invented the "we only have one life" dogma anyway? When did it happen? Why did it happen? God didn't invent it. It certainly wasn't Christ's idea.
BELIEVERS IN REINCARNATION...
- Plato (582-507 B.C.)
- Origen (185-254 A.D.)
- St. Clement of Alexandria (150-220 A.D.)
- St. Gregory (257-332 A.D.)
- St. Augustine (354-430 A.D.)
Sometime during the first 600 years of early Christianity, several major events happened...
Early references to reincarnation in the New Testament had been deleted in the fourth century by Emperor Constantine, when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.
In the sixth century, the Second Council of Constantinople ruled that reincarnation was a false belief punishable by persecution and death.
At the same time, the Church and the Roman Emperors knew that the concept of prior lives would weaken and undermine their power over their followers since it would give these people too much time to achieve salvation... the threat of a Judgment Day and punishment by an angry God at the end of one's life, worked a lot better to control the masses.
The Roman Catholic church realized it would have more power and influence by becoming not only a religious organization, but a political one. As a result, the church formed powerful alliances with the Roman emperors.
Why did the church form these alliances with the Roman emperors? Because the emperors wanted to make sure that the people didn't riot and an organized religion that controlled the masses through fear could help to accomplish that.
Why did the emperors want to make sure there were no rebellions by the masses? Because the wanted an uninterrupted flow of taxes.