So this is how liberty dies — to thunderous applause

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
Yea in America you can say anything thats on your mind, tolerance twoards otehr people is stressed, and America gives foriegn aid to countries constantly.

Yes, they promote tolerance. And then pass the Patriot Act which allows ANYONE merely SUSPECTED of terrorism (and what's to stop them from simply accusing anyone of being a suspect, much like McCarthyism) for any amount of time. No limits. You can simply disappear. And don't say it hasn't happened because it has. The FBI detained a guy for three months, his family wasn't notified. This happened late last year. And then there's all the racial bias in Law Enforcement. And then there's all the accepted racism that just goes on unchecked because its gets passed off as "only joking". Yeah, go ask any minority what they think about the US gov. and its promoting of tolerance and watch them laugh hysterically.

And foreign aid? yeah, after we've bombed your neighborhoods and hospitals. You know the first 16, SIXTEEN, "smart missle" attacks on Iraq MISSED their targets SIGNIFICANTLY? you know where they went? into neighborhoods and hospitals. And these aren't little shoulder mounted rockets, we're taking HUGE amounts of devistation. So yeah, how nice of us to drop aid which they wouldn't have even needed if WE HADN'T CREATED THE NEED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And this stuff about the Jedi being the terrorists, think about that for a second. the Jedi and the Rebellion are pinned as terrorists by the Empire, but who do we route for? That's right, the Rebellion and the Jedi because they're being misrepresented. I'm not saying all terrorism is justified, I'm just saying you have to consider the source, something not terribly common in this country. Things get taken out of context all the time.

Yeah I agree.... I really feel for the Iraqis too it must be so hard for them to give up their state sponsored rape and murder. In fact I'm pen pals with an Iraqi. He tells me it's very tough on his family to be able to speak their minds now without the threat of torture and death. They don't know what to do with themselves!

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Let's see, instances in which a Chancellor has taken emergency powers and dominated a Republic, creating an Empire...

Sounds like the Third Reich. You're all off. GL, just like his Indy trend, is anti-Nazi and it shows. Now for the next dark threat...

Yeah, and the current American political situation is starting to mirror it just as much as Star Wars. God, I can't believe how literal some people are. He also based it on the Roman Empire in many ways as WELL as Nazism. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

This is how dictators rise, the people are pacified by being under the rule of someone who tells them what they want to hear. Rulers who give them a common enemy to hate, like Hitler. Like those who ran the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, like the Holocaust. You hand the public an enemy, spin it in a way which allows them to jump to their own conclusions, the conclusion that the creator of the spin carefully drew them to but allowed them to do on their own. They then get riled up, stop thinking on their own, get a blood lust going, and then the public is puddy in your hands. they want blood, they want "justice". They'll let you do or say anything in order to achieve this goal (ie--Patriot Act/Emergency Powers). You give them a bone, you string them along, you tell them you're so close, and then you hand them a victory of some kind (death of Dooku/capture of Sadaam) and again, their puddy in your hands. Then you keep your powers, like how they haven't repealed the Patriot Act.

And all through this, they create an air of patriotism, loyalism, and nationalism, and that any other mindset (like mine/the Jedi/anyone with half a brain and open eyes) is vilified as unloyal and a threat. You now live in fear, of both this new enemy AND not appearing loyal to your government. So you keep letting the government do anything they claim they need to MAINTAIN this security. And you're done. You're owned by your government. You think what they wanted you to think, you react how they wanted you to react. And this lasts until people finally smarten up and rebel. Then you have them. That's it, you control them and they let you. Liberty died to thunderous applause.

Also, it's completely unsound to take a past "prediction" and apply it to any modern events.

It's incredibly easy to look at things that have already happened and say that they were predicted by the Bible or Nostradamus or something. Take the Bible and Nostradamus and try to take something and predict the future, on the other hand, and you will find it very difficult to be successful.

Bottom line, no matter what was going on right now in the world, it would be very easy to find something that we could say the Ep. 3 was commenting on.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Yeah, and the current American political situation is starting to mirror it just as much as Star Wars. God, I can't believe how literal some people are. He also based it on the Roman Empire in many ways as WELL as Nazism. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

This is how dictators rise, the people are pacified by being under the rule of someone who tells them what they want to hear. Rulers who give them a common enemy to hate, like Hitler. Like those who ran the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, like the Holocaust. You hand the public an enemy, spin it in a way which allows them to jump to their own conclusions, the conclusion that the creator of the spin carefully drew them to but allowed them to do on their own. They then get riled up, stop thinking on their own, get a blood lust going, and then the public is puddy in your hands. they want blood, they want "justice". They'll let you do or say anything in order to achieve this goal (ie--Patriot Act/Emergency Powers). You give them a bone, you string them along, you tell them you're so close, and then you hand them a victory of some kind (death of Dooku/capture of Sadaam) and again, their puddy in your hands. Then you keep your powers, like how they haven't repealed the Patriot Act.

And all through this, they create an air of patriotism, loyalism, and nationalism, and that any other mindset (like mine/the Jedi/anyone with half a brain and open eyes) is vilified as unloyal and a threat. You now live in fear, of both this new enemy AND not appearing loyal to your government. So you keep letting the government do anything they claim they need to MAINTAIN this security. And you're done. You're owned by your government. You think what they wanted you to think, you react how they wanted you to react. And this lasts until people finally smarten up and rebel. Then you have them. That's it, you control them and they let you. Liberty died to thunderous applause.

Boo-ya!

Originally posted by woman_beater69

Boo-ya!

💃 💃 😄 💃 💃

.... but I'm from Massachusettes 🙁

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Yeah I agree.... I really feel for the Iraqis too it must be so hard for them to give up their state sponsored rape and murder. In fact I'm pen pals with an Iraqi. He tells me it's very tough on his family to be able to speak their minds now without the threat of torture and death. They don't know what to do with themselves!

Yes, its good that's all ended. But the reasons behind it are still wrong. And the end DOESN'T justify the means. Sorry, Bush isn't a hero because his lies yeilded a bit of good. He's so dumb he's managed to do something right, to bad he had to lie to the American people and piss off the rest of the world to do it. Doesn't anyone care that they were lied to? completely mis-lead?

I'm sorry you can't see past the propaganda you've been spoon fed by the news. I'm sorry you've fallen right into the mindset they want you to have. I'm sorry you're a tool of the government who can't think for himself and realize he was lied to for three years straight, simply because they managed to get Sadaam finally. Why was it so hard the last few times? Hmmm? it wasn't, it just wasn't convienient for us at the time. It wasn't gonna have the impact it had this time, its wasn't gonna trap the general public (ie-you) into NOT being angry that there WERE NO WEAPONS. There were NO LABS. EVERY reason we went into there for was a LIE. Then they smartened up and started pointing out the rape and stuff. How come they didn't start with that? because they DIDN"T CARE! They got what they wanted, and no ones mad because we caught our villan. Theres a great big elephant in the room of America, and nobody will point it out because 'that's not patriotic and democratic to question your government'.

Get a clue.

The EMPEROR has a response to that...

http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fanon.salon.speedera.net%2Fanon.salon%2Fmedia%2F2004%2F10%2FBushUncensored.mov

And I didn't say anything about crazy bible predictions Lazer, I'm talking about history repeating itself. But nice comparison, really didn't sound like probaganda-being-repeated-by-someone-who-didn't-really-understand-in-the-first-place at all!

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Yeah, and the current American political situation is starting to mirror it just as much as Star Wars. God, I can't believe how literal some people are. He also based it on the Roman Empire in many ways as WELL as Nazism. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

This is how dictators rise, the people are pacified by being under the rule of someone who tells them what they want to hear. Rulers who give them a common enemy to hate, like Hitler. Like those who ran the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, like the Holocaust. You hand the public an enemy, spin it in a way which allows them to jump to their own conclusions, the conclusion that the creator of the spin carefully drew them to but allowed them to do on their own. They then get riled up, stop thinking on their own, get a blood lust going, and then the public is puddy in your hands. they want blood, they want "justice". They'll let you do or say anything in order to achieve this goal (ie--Patriot Act/Emergency Powers). You give them a bone, you string them along, you tell them you're so close, and then you hand them a victory of some kind (death of Dooku/capture of Sadaam) and again, their puddy in your hands. Then you keep your powers, like how they haven't repealed the Patriot Act.

And all through this, they create an air of patriotism, loyalism, and nationalism, and that any other mindset (like mine/the Jedi/anyone with half a brain and open eyes) is vilified as unloyal and a threat. You now live in fear, of both this new enemy AND not appearing loyal to your government. So you keep letting the government do anything they claim they need to MAINTAIN this security. And you're done. You're owned by your government. You think what they wanted you to think, you react how they wanted you to react. And this lasts until people finally smarten up and rebel. Then you have them. That's it, you control them and they let you. Liberty died to thunderous applause.

God, I can't believe how literal some people are.

And I can't believe you didn't see the joke I was making. You've got that conspiracy theory jammed so far up your ass it must click when you speak against the back of your teeth.

Why don't you try being a bit more sensitive and not be such an overbearing ass. I know as well as you do that modern America is another facist nation in the works. Hell, I've spoken on it many times, in this very board. But if you're gonna be a pedagogue, at least have some consideration. It's likely that I know more than you about the Roman Empire as well as history in general, but you're passing it off like I'm some naive Amerikaner who doesn't know the truth from a brand name. And I don't appreciate that.

Many of the things used in the Patriot Act are also used against drug dealers, and its worked. I have no problem, if Im not bad, they wont bother me, I do not want another 9/11, but anyway, Star Wars is more about the Nazis than anything.

Originally posted by phinney6
Many of the things used in the Patriot Act are also used against drug dealers, and its worked. I have no problem, if Im not bad, they wont bother me, I do not want another 9/11, but anyway, Star Wars is more about the Nazis than anything.

Exactly.

Here's the problem: he SHOULD be lying! (in this case, anyways)

Something like WWII is clear cut, you tell the people the way it is: "Japan attacked us, so we're at war with them. We also have to stop the threat in Europe, as it's getting way out of hand."

That's easy. Not everything in world politics and in war is that easy. For example, there is a very prominent theory by an ex-high ranking CIA official that the invasion of Iraq was essentially "blackmail." Basically, the theory states Bush saw all sorts of trouble in the Middle East, such as Iran, Lybia, Syria, Lebanon, etc. He is to have decided to invade Iraq essentially to make the other countries realize the US means business, and they had better cut the nuclear garbage and all the other stuff they were up to. (If this was the strategy, it has worked well as many countries in that region have succumbed and given up illegal and dangerous practices).

Now tell me: if this was the strategy, could Bush have said that? Imagine the press conference:

"My fellow Americans: there is much trouble in the Middle East. Too many countries are violating international law, and too many leaders are stockpiling dangerous weapons. Even though we can't take them ALL out, we have decided to invade Iraq in hopes that the other countries will be fooled into falling into line."

That's the problem. It's possible Bush just made a major mistake. On the other hand, it's possible that he knows some kind of information that only 5 people in the world know, and that neither you nor I have any hope of EVER knowing that would cause disaster were it to be given to the general public. When it comes to war, lies are REQUIRED. That was Geraldo's problem when he gave away troop locations on live TV. You can't do that! Lies are required in war and in world politics. Not always, and most often truth is demanded. However, there are instances where anything but a lie would be disaster. This COULD be one of them.

That's why it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Yes, its good that's all ended. But the reasons behind it are still wrong. And the end DOESN'T justify the means. Sorry, Bush isn't a hero because his lies yeilded a bit of good. He's so dumb he's managed to do something right, to bad he had to lie to the American people and piss off the rest of the world to do it. Doesn't anyone care that they were lied to? completely mis-lead?

I'm sorry you can't see past the propaganda you've been spoon fed by the news. I'm sorry you've fallen right into the mindset they want you to have. I'm sorry you're a tool of the government who can't think for himself and realize he was lied to for three years straight, simply because they managed to get Sadaam finally. Why was it so hard the last few times? Hmmm? it wasn't, it just wasn't convienient for us at the time. It wasn't gonna have the impact it had this time, its wasn't gonna trap the general public (ie-you) into NOT being angry that there WERE NO WEAPONS. There were NO LABS. EVERY reason we went into there for was a LIE. Then they smartened up and started pointing out the rape and stuff. How come they didn't start with that? because they DIDN"T CARE! They got what they wanted, and no ones mad because we caught our villan. Theres a great big elephant in the room of America, and nobody will point it out because 'that's not patriotic and democratic to question your government'.

Get a clue.

Its funny when you call us mislead when the majority of liberal accusations are based on conspiracy theories without real facts, and close-minded opinions that believe every anti-bush article from every opinioned newspaper with liberal journalists. Also the NBC, CBS, ABC, left-wing news which will post whats happening but also post the negative things that bush does to people and the "hard time" we are haivng over in iraq when the majority of Iraq is peaceful (talk to the actual troops over there). The media likes to get the people stirred up and ususally against Bush. You say they aren't hard on him enough, Its not the medias job to be hard on a President. Its to report the FACTS only. But they usually have these analysts who try to find what bad the Bush things are doing. They also usually give what the President does without saying what he's doing it for, without saying why he's doing it, it looks bad on him and against does towarsds anti-bushism

www.mediaresearch.org

this website will actually report how the cbs, nbc, abc media reports, or should I say DOESN'T report why Bush does the things he does. There is a logical reason

WOW.

"...it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country".

Thank you, I could not have had my point about people being brain washed by governments/empires more beautifully illustrated.

I have friends and family in Iraq right now. Don't buy the hype folks. The plan is working. Hell, a Kurd was just elected president. What kind of message is that?

Also, and this just tickles me pink, there is a currently movement underway by the Iraqis themselves (and this is no lie) to erect two statues. One will be of an American soldier and the other will be of Bush.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Here's the problem: he SHOULD be lying! (in this case, anyways)

Something like WWII is clear cut, you tell the people the way it is: "Japan attacked us, so we're at war with them. We also have to stop the threat in Europe, as it's getting way out of hand."

That's easy. Not everything in world politics and in war is that easy. For example, there is a very prominent theory by an ex-high ranking CIA official that the invasion of Iraq was essentially "blackmail." Basically, the theory states Bush saw all sorts of trouble in the Middle East, such as Iran, Lybia, Syria, Lebanon, etc. He is to have decided to invade Iraq essentially to make the other countries realize the US means business, and they had better cut the nuclear garbage and all the other stuff they were up to. (If this was the strategy, it has worked well as many countries in that region have succumbed and given up illegal and dangerous practices).

Now tell me: if this was the strategy, could Bush have said that? Imagine the press conference:

"My fellow Americans: there is much trouble in the Middle East. Too many countries are violating international law, and too many leaders are stockpiling dangerous weapons. Even though we can't take them ALL out, we have decided to invade Iraq in hopes that the other countries will be fooled into falling into line."

That's the problem. It's possible Bush just made a major mistake. On the other hand, it's possible that he knows some kind of information that only 5 people in the world know, and that neither you nor I have any hope of EVER knowing that would cause disaster were it to be given to the general public. When it comes to war, lies are REQUIRED. That was Geraldo's problem when he gave away troop locations on live TV. You can't do that! Lies are required in war and in world politics. Not always, and most often truth is demanded. However, there are instances where anything but a lie would be disaster. This COULD be one of them.

That's why it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country.

yeah and that's why WWII was supported. Imagine if the media reported every singe death of WWII like they did in Iraq. We would have more people saying to us to pull out, and we all know what would happen if we did pull out.

The Battle of the Bulge would be a quagmire according to Teddy Kennedy.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
God, I can't believe how literal some people are.

And I can't believe you didn't see the joke I was making. You've got that conspiracy theory jammed so far up your ass it must click when you speak against the back of your teeth.

Why don't you try being a bit more sensitive and not be such an overbearing ass. I know as well as you do that modern America is another facist nation in the works. Hell, I've spoken on it many times, in this very board. But if you're gonna be a pedagogue, at least have some consideration. It's likely that I know more than you about the Roman Empire as well as history in general, but you're passing it off like I'm some naive Amerikaner who doesn't know the truth from a brand name. And I don't appreciate that.

sorry if I took your comment out of context. you said "you're all off". It just didn't sound sarcastic. i guess I just missed it, sorry.

And I'm sorry for the jumpy response. This internet makes me some invisible demon. Thank you for the apology. It wasn't something I expected. And strike all that from the record. I get easily irked if I think people are mocking me or whatnot.

Bah, I feel foolish because you apologized. But thanks.