Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Darth Revan and Darth Malak

(Replying to Revan Darkstar) Well said. However, Revan still fought many Jedi and Sith even as a general. Look at Obi-Wan in the clone wars. The Republic fought the Mandalorians for 3 years, Revan killed TONS of them, including the Mandalore. (Not to mention the new Mandalore bows down to Revan.) Even if that Mandalore wasn’t as strong, and he probably wasn’t, Revan also defeated the strongest Echani, Yusanis (who’s also the father of the handmaiden.) Speaking of handmaiden, she said Revan’s ability to predict movements was so advanced, he was not only able to predict his opponent’s movements, but entire wars. She says it’s incredibly skilled and she said no other non-Echani could do that.

Now as for Jedi, he fought them in a galactic war for two years as the Dark Lord of the Sith. He killed MANY Jedi by himself. Better than that, he turned even more to his side. Now I don’t know how many he killed, but as for Dark Jedi he kills at least 200 in the game alone, maybe more. Not to mention two Sith Lords. Next he kills Juhani and Jolee by himself (yes Bastila was with him but it’s so easy in the game that he doesn’t even remotely need her. You can easily kill Juhani in lightsaber combat while choking Jolee to death without losing half of your power and without Bastila.) Then fighting the Sith Empire single handedly is pretty good as well.

Now maybe he didn’t kill more Jedi, I don’t know, I just thought I remembered you saying he killed 20 or something. Anyways, Revan wasn’t defeated any more than Exar Kun was so that’s pretty well thrown out. Now that’s pretty impressive for the Jedi to send 10,000 Jedi after Exar but there wasn’t even that many Jedi around to send after Revan. However, the Jedi council was willing to train him again because he was the only one who could defeat the Sith, regardless that he was the Dark Lord. That’s some serious power for the Jedi council to do that.

Now as for Exar’s spirit, that I do know about and you are seriously making him look WAY better than he was. 14 Jedi? Luke’s spirit and Exar’s master’s spirit did nothing. I am positive. They watched and encouraged the barely trained Force users. They probably weren’t even padawans and if they were it was only barely. They didn’t even need 12 Jedi, they only needed the two with the lightsabers. All Exar did to try and stop them was use Force Choke which Streen resisted. Now as for the part where Luke goes into a coma, that is only with Exar AND Kyp combining their power, Luke even says he would have been able to hold off one of them but not both. Summoning the Sun Crusher from a sun? Wrong again. It was the core of Yavin to start with (which I’ll admit, is kinda like a sun, but not as strong) and it was Kyp that did most of the work, Kun only helped a little bit. And besides, Kyp just turned the engines on and flew it out of their. Now I’m not slamming Exar, because c’mon he’s a spirit but he was not extraordinary, which does make me wonder if you have exaggerated his accomplishments as a physical being, but I have no proof so I won’t doubt you.

I will also admit the my opinion is not as good as yours because I don’t know enough about Exar except when he was a spirit. The official websites and essential guides don’t say anything powerful about him, they even make him look kinda weak, so I don’t know much about him at all. But I do know that Revan starts off with amazing potential, learns EVERYTHING he can about the Jedi and Sith, fights as the leader in two galactic scale battles for 5 years straight, loses his power and then comes back even stronger with new artifacts and relics, and then recovers all his memories and experience about the Jedi and Sith. He kills two Sith Lords and Kreia said he was power. Even still, Lord Revan would have some trouble beating Exar most likely. IMO Revan couldn’t have gotten stronger unless he had the potential of Anakin Skywalker…

The guy on the planet was not Mandalore. It says above his head that he was a captain. CAPTAIN, NOT MANDALORE. He didn't even have the right armor, which is required to be Mandalore. Canderous also says in KOTOR 2 that he became the only Mandalore after the one killed by Revan.

I'm curious...

1) Where does it say he's not specifically?

2) What is the special mandalore armor? How do they keep it in tradition, since the Mandalore before could be spaced for all we know?

3) Canderous says what in KOTOR II? That he was Mandalore on Taris, working for Davik? Or was he Mandalore after Revan's victory, when he came back?

They were in the Outer Rim, and Revan said to Canderous that he needed to reunite the Mandalorian clans and to become the Mandalore. Canderousand the Mandalorian Sergent on Dantooine, jater says that after Malacor V, which is where Revan killed Mandalore, that no new Mandalore was elected. And the Sergent in KOTOR 2 on Dantooine also says that, "I always wanted to be Mandalore, anyone could make a replica of Mandalore's armor and declare them selves Mandalore....", so the armor must have something to do with it. Also, that guy on the Rakata planet was wearing Mandalorrian Assault Armor. This was given to Captains. Plus, it just so happens to have a bar above his head which describes what kind of enemy he is, and it says he is a Captain.

Fair enough. Did you actually get some of this information out of Canderous himself? He's always been tight lipped with me.

Originally posted by Darth Revan33
(Replying to Revan Darkstar) Well said. However, Revan still fought many Jedi and Sith even as a general. Look at Obi-Wan in the clone wars. The Republic fought the Mandalorians for 3 years, Revan killed TONS of them, including the Mandalore. (Not to mention the new Mandalore bows down to Revan.) Even if that Mandalore wasn’t as strong, and he probably wasn’t, Revan also defeated the strongest Echani, Yusanis (who’s also the father of the handmaiden.) Speaking of handmaiden, she said Revan’s ability to predict movements was so advanced, he was not only able to predict his opponent’s movements, but entire wars. She says it’s incredibly skilled and she said no other non-Echani could do that.

Now as for Jedi, he fought them in a galactic war for two years as the Dark Lord of the Sith. He killed MANY Jedi by himself. Better than that, he turned even more to his side. Now I don’t know how many he killed, but as for Dark Jedi he kills at least 200 in the game alone, maybe more. Not to mention two Sith Lords. Next he kills Juhani and Jolee by himself (yes Bastila was with him but it’s so easy in the game that he doesn’t even remotely need her. You can easily kill Juhani in lightsaber combat while choking Jolee to death without losing half of your power and without Bastila.) Then fighting the Sith Empire single handedly is pretty good as well.

Now maybe he didn’t kill more Jedi, I don’t know, I just thought I remembered you saying he killed 20 or something. Anyways, Revan wasn’t defeated any more than Exar Kun was so that’s pretty well thrown out. Now that’s pretty impressive for the Jedi to send 10,000 Jedi after Exar but there wasn’t even that many Jedi around to send after Revan. However, the Jedi council was willing to train him again because he was the only one who could defeat the Sith, regardless that he was the Dark Lord. That’s some serious power for the Jedi council to do that.

Now as for Exar’s spirit, that I do know about and you are seriously making him look WAY better than he was. 14 Jedi? Luke’s spirit and Exar’s master’s spirit did nothing. I am positive. They watched and encouraged the barely trained Force users. They probably weren’t even padawans and if they were it was only barely. They didn’t even need 12 Jedi, they only needed the two with the lightsabers. All Exar did to try and stop them was use Force Choke which Streen resisted. Now as for the part where Luke goes into a coma, that is only with Exar AND Kyp combining their power, Luke even says he would have been able to hold off one of them but not both. Summoning the Sun Crusher from a sun? Wrong again. It was the core of Yavin to start with (which I’ll admit, is kinda like a sun, but not as strong) and it was Kyp that did most of the work, Kun only helped a little bit. And besides, Kyp just turned the engines on and flew it out of their. Now I’m not slamming Exar, because c’mon he’s a spirit but he was not extraordinary, which does make me wonder if you have exaggerated his accomplishments as a physical being, but I have no proof so I won’t doubt you.

I will also admit the my opinion is not as good as yours because I don’t know enough about Exar except when he was a spirit. The official websites and essential guides don’t say anything powerful about him, they even make him look kinda weak, so I don’t know much about him at all. But I do know that Revan starts off with amazing potential, learns EVERYTHING he can about the Jedi and Sith, fights as the leader in two galactic scale battles for 5 years straight, loses his power and then comes back even stronger with new artifacts and relics, and then recovers all his memories and experience about the Jedi and Sith. He kills two Sith Lords and Kreia said he was power. Even still, Lord Revan would have some trouble beating Exar most likely. IMO Revan couldn’t have gotten stronger unless he had the potential of Anakin Skywalker…

WOW!!!!!

There is a lot of untrue crap in you post!

"Speaking of handmaiden, she said Revan’s ability to predict movements was so advanced, he was not only able to predict his opponent’s movements, but entire wars. She says it’s incredibly skilled and she said no other non-Echani could do that."

She says that some of the most skilled Echani Generals could predict wars years in advance, not Revan.

"Next he kills Juhani and Jolee by himself (yes Bastila was with him but it’s so easy in the game that he doesn’t even remotely need her. You can easily kill Juhani in lightsaber combat while choking Jolee to death without losing half of your power and without Bastila.) "

I suggest you check that what your posting is canon. Lucaarts have declared LS ending canon. Therefor no killing Juhani and Jolee.

"However, the Jedi council was willing to train him again because he was the only one who could defeat the Sith, regardless that he was the Dark Lord. That’s some serious power for the Jedi council to do that."

The reason they chose to retrain him was because Revan knew the location of the Star Maps, and the way to win the war was to find the star maps.

"Now as for Exar’s spirit, that I do know about and you are seriously making him look WAY better than he was. 14 Jedi? Luke’s spirit and Exar’s master’s spirit did nothing. I am positive. They watched and encouraged the barely trained Force users. They probably weren’t even padawans and if they were it was only barely. They didn’t even need 12 Jedi, they only needed the two with the lightsabers. All Exar did to try and stop them was use Force Choke which Streen resisted. Now as for the part where Luke goes into a coma, that is only with Exar AND Kyp combining their power, Luke even says he would have been able to hold off one of them but not both."

So they are just barely trained padawans? And it even says that Luke and Vodo helped! Also, you said Kyp helped put Luke in the coma. Wow, I thought they were just barely trained padawans! Didn't someone just say they were just barely trained padawans? Ohhhhhhhh! It was you! You just always say things that counterdict what you said a few senticences earlier.

"Summoning the Sun Crusher from a sun? Wrong again. It was the core of Yavin to start with (which I’ll admit, is kinda like a sun, but not as strong) and it was Kyp that did most of the work, Kun only helped a little bit."

Wait! Don't tell me! Is this another time where you just counterdict youself? Yes, I think it is! Kyp is just a barely trained padawon, he couldn't have done most of the work.

Also, if you read star wars books, and not whatever crap your getting, Corran Horn says that Kyp didn't want to help Exar. He could have easily killed Luke after he was in a coma by pushing him off the temple or something. Now wait! Am I counterdicting myself too! No, I'm not. Kyp WAS just an untrained padawon, he had two weeks of training! Four less than everyone else! Exar was doing all of that himself and he constintly had Kyp, Luke's most powerful apprentice at that time, maybe of all time so far, resisting him!

Let me make an anology. You eat a cheseburger. The calories in that cheseburger are turned into energy. You will use up all of that energy after a while, and will need to eat again. Kun used the Massassi as energy for four thousand years, he used Gantorius for two weeks or so. Then he leached off Kyp for a while until Kyp started resisting and he also lost a lot of energy trying to take people like Streen.

Exar fought off 10,000 Jedi for long enough to asorb the energy of an entire species.

Exar is definatly more powerful than Revan.

Ohhh, and a side note, you said the essential guides make hm look weak. Well, I have both essential guides to characters and in the newest one it says that he topped Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, and Naga Sadow. It is referring to lenght of life, but generaly, the more powerful live longer.

She says that some of the most skilled Echani Generals could predict wars years in advance, not Revan.

Actually she does say Revan had an amazing talent for doing that, more so then any Echani ever...

I suggest you check that what your posting is canon. Lucaarts have declared LS ending canon. Therefor no killing Juhani and Jolee.

Obsidian and Bioware have however both been quoted on saying that the DS ending is the real ending.

The reason they chose to retrain him was because Revan knew the location of the Star Maps, and the way to win the war was to find the star maps.

The reason was both the star maps and that he was the only that could actually find the star forge and destroy it. They did however have other options then how they did it, and they obviously wanted Revan to do their work for them because they could not do so themselves. The Jedi were in no state to attack Malak, without Revan they would have died, they needed him and not just to find the Star Forge. They needed Revan to kill Malak.

Wow, in your own words, that's a lot of untrue crap you posted!

Handmaiden DID say Revan could predict wars, go play the game again or something.

LS is the cannonical ending right? Well, what lucas site says that, and in either case it's irrelevant because the topic says DARTH Revan, not just Revan.

Revan originally found the Star Maps, that doesn't mean other Jedi couldn't have found them too. Though this is a good reason, they still sent Revan to the Star Forge because they knew they needed him. The Jedi council would not have risked bringing a Sith Lord back unless they were confident that he would remain on the light side and be strong enough to defeat Malak.

Now here's what you said "So they are just barely trained padawans? And it even says that Luke and Vodo helped! Also, you said Kyp helped put Luke in the coma. Wow, I thought they were just barely trained padawans! Didn't someone just say they were just barely trained padawans? Ohhhhhhhh! It was you! You just always say things that counterdict what you said a few senticences earlier." Ahem, WRONG AGAIN! I never said Kyp was a barely trained padawan because he wasn't one of the Jedi destroying Exar Kun! He and Gantoris were being trained by him and became much, much stronger so they were FAR beyond the other weak Jedi. No, there is nothing in there to say Vodo or Luke's spirit helped. It says they wanted the Jedi to win. Like I said before, the only ones needed were Streen and Kirana Ti because they had the lightsabers and Streen is the one that resisted the Force Choke.
Don't assume. You know what happens when you do.

It doesn't matter what Corran says, he wasn't there and Luke was. Here's what it says in the book: "Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like blue cracks in the Force. Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly Force. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail." Don't tell me I'm wrong when I'm not. It just makes you look pretty stupid.

And when it says "Kun topped them all" in the guide, it is referring ONLY to length of life. A longer life doesn't necessarily make you more powerful. Count Dooku lived longer than Anakin and he wasn't more powerful. I don't contradict myself a lot like you think. You just have to be smart enough to know what I'm saying.

Revan33,

GL says that the LS ending is the better one. Now you ask, why did he become Darth Revan still? Because later he regained his memories and knew what he was.

I like that idea. Though I would like a link to the lucas site where it says the cannonical one.

Since I did post Darth Revan, that means that it is from either before he was originaly detroned by Revan, OR, it is after, but still before he left to fight the TSE.

Also, Corran was their duing when Exar was attacking, he was just trying to destroy Exar Kun's Temple, the one that housed his spirit, during thetime that Exar was destroyed.

And I see that you are atleast somewhat desperate, because you only half posted what I said about the age thing. Go read what I typed, then read what you typed and you will see what I mean.

Actually I was just running out of time, I typed that all before school, and class was about to start so I quickly tried to finish, jumped in my car and took off.

Anywho, there really wasn't more to be said. It was not referring to power and people who lived longer were not necessarily stronger. Palpy only lived to be 90 some I think and he was pretty powerful. Besides, the whole reason Exar's spirit survived that long was because he drained the power from the entire Massassi race, preserving his spirit in the walls of his temple.

I dont mean to get nitpicky, but it was in the statue of him, not the walls,(shows how much you know), but anyway.

Sory, I can't find a link to show he's is a lightside male right now.

Darth Revan and Darth Malak win definetly.

evidence for this? at least Revan33 is putting forth ideas, which we counter, I get annoyed with people that just post like this:

Revan/Malak
Exar/Ulic
Revan/Malak
Exar/Ulic
Revan/Malak
Luke
Yoda
Vader etc.

please post facts next time, thanks

and remove the bananas

ulic arguably solos

Eh, Malak arguably solos. Depends on what sources you're wanting to look at.

Personally, I've never understood the hype around Ulic and Exar Kun. Some of the claims people make about them are so hilariously ill-informed that I just can't take them seriously.