Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Funny how people who've never seen or have any proof that aliens exist believe in aliens yet say that God doesn't.I mean believe what you want, just be consistent with your beliefs or else you become in-credible hypocrite.
Hypocrisy makes me gag. And ignorant hypocrisy taste like bile.
A good point. Still, I am perfectly open to the idea non-earth life exists, and think it's quite possible they do. Yet I don't really believe in the whole "God" concept. But then, for me, it's statistically and scientifically more likely non-earth life would exist then some form of God. It's a big old universe. Our planet orbits a very common type of sun. Scientists are forever finding new planets. The conditions it seems have to be just right, but when they are life seems to hang on no matter what, as we can see in the history of earth. Of course whether there is other intelligent life out there is a whole other question. But who knows.
But anyway, as to aliens in relation to religion, well, if there is a God, and he huffed and puffed and created everything, the question is, if he only wanted humans, on earth, and he only intended for humanity to be around for a short while before he took care of them on Judgement day, why bother with the rest of the universe? What point could there have been to create a whole universe of suns and planets and places where new suns and planets can be born and where it's possible other life can exist and all that when the only thing of any consequence was apparently earth and it's little wriggly humans? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been to just make the sky look nice at night.
For some reason I'm reminded of that Simpsons episode where they're doing the story of Joan of Arc, and she's standing trial with God as her only witness and basically she says God told her to fight the English, while the English say God told them to fight the French, at which point God's ray of light leaves quickly. I can imagine humans and aliens have the same kind of thing happen if there was a god.
Human general: You damn aliens, God created man and gave them souls, we are the rightful lords of the universe, God said so....Alien General: Wait, God created marqrtle, and said we were the only ones with souls and that it was our duty to subjugate the universe!
God: Ah yeah, that's my work done, see ya guys.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Funny how people who've never seen or have any proof that aliens exist believe in aliens yet say that God doesn't.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
A good point. Still, I am perfectly open to the idea non-earth life exists, and think it's quite possible they do. Yet I don't really believe in the whole "God" concept. But then, for me, it's statistically and scientifically more likely non-earth life would exist then some form of God. It's a big old universe. Our planet orbits a very common type of sun. Scientists are forever finding new planets. The conditions it seems have to be just right, but when they are life seems to hang on no matter what, as we can see in the history of earth. Of course whether there is other intelligent life out there is a whole other question. But who knows.But anyway, as to aliens in relation to religion, well, if there is a God, and he huffed and puffed and created everything, the question is, if he only wanted humans, on earth, and he only intended for humanity to be around for a short while before he took care of them on Judgement day, why bother with the rest of the universe? What point could there have been to create a whole universe of suns and planets and places where new suns and planets can be born and where it's possible other life can exist and all that when the only thing of any consequence was apparently earth and it's little wriggly humans? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been to just make the sky look nice at night.
As you wrote, "scientists are forever finding new planets that have conditions that seem to be just right", yet there's been no proof of life on any of these many newly discovered planets that pop up all the time, yet people still believe in aliens but not God, for which there is no more proof of either.
And I bet someone else could've easily answered all your questions in the 2nd paragraph with the common "God works in mysterious ways" refrain, buts that'd be to easy for me. What if God just made the astros merely to make the sky look nice at night. He could do what he wants, he made it. What if the stars are a message or if it was put there to give us that feeling that we are indeed apart of something grand, and I could keep going for a million years with this if I lived that long, point is, as you yourself so eloquently put it, Who Knows..Tell you the truth, I'd rather believe that there is something more profound and greater than all of us rather than believing a badly hoaxed home video of a U.F.O. with little green men inside the hull, wanting to probe us with shiny pointy instruments in order to ultimately gather our DNA samples that they can bring back home to some other farfetched galaxy not our own.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
As you wrote, "scientists are forever finding new planets that have conditions that seem to be just right", yet there's been no proof of life on any of these many newly discovered planets that pop up all the time, yet people still believe in aliens but not God, for which there is no more proof of either.
They find these planets via light that has taken millions of years to get to us... they arn't going to see tiny people waving at us...
Concidering the fact that we evolved..(Yes I believe in evolution over us apearing after 7 days, Only craig david has the power of 7 days...) It would be very close minded to think that no where else could evolve life.. Concidering the chances I would bet somewhere else there are aliens... But then again.. There probably thinking "Why haven't they come and visited us..."
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
They find these planets via light that has taken millions of years to get to us... they arn't going to see tiny people waving at us...Concidering the fact that we evolved..(Yes I believe in evolution over us apearing after 7 days, Only craig david has the power of 7 days...) It would be very close minded to think that no where else could evolve life.. Concidering the chances I would bet somewhere else there are aliens... But then again.. There probably thinking "Why haven't they come and visited us..."
Well, duh. I think you'd be a real stupid person to think you're "going to see tiny people waving at us" via tele.
What I'm saying is, or what he's saying rather, is that scientists are constantly finding planets that can support life due to it's environment. Well that's ok. If you can see evidence of potential life like air or other life sustaining elements but yet no know if life does or doesn't exist on said planet but assume it just does, cause it just might be is a pitiful wishful thought.
I heard the Earth was a lifeless rock for billions for years. That life has only been on Earth not even a billion years. That humans have been around just about a million years. Point is, just because a planet "seems" habitable, you shouldn't jump the gun and say "yippee!, aliens exist!" and look hopeless.
Well... Untill we create faster then light spaceships or they visit us, we won't know.... But assuming that should they support life.. Then there should be a good chance that life will start there over somewhere like pluto... With so many planets out there I would be quite close minded to think that we are the only planet out there with a chance of life...
Seeing as most Religionist like to just point out the micro flaws in science while bypassing the huge gaps in there bible... I'll ask some questions...
Asuming that God did creates us, just like the bible says... Why did he create all these other planets and stars???
Why did he create such a big universe???
Why did god doom us? he created the sun but decided that it should blow us up one day!
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Seeing as most religionists like to just point out the micro flaws in science while bypassing the huge gaps in there bible... I'll ask some questions...
Asuming that God did creates us, just like the bible says... Why did he create all these other planets and stars???
Why did he create such a big universe???
Why did god doom us? he created the sun but decided that it should blow us up one day!
I'm quite honored with the fact that your asking me questions you would ask a God or questions that only he can answer, I hadn't known you held in such high esteem. Thank you.
But anyway,..You say religionists like to point out the micro flaws in science while bypassing the huge gaps in there bible and I say just as an evolutionist/creationist always loves pointing out the micro flaws of theology while bypassing the huge gaps there are in science, that's why they rely on theory, which is just an educational guess.
Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthWhy would a creationist point out the flaws in theology. Evolutionist is not a word - it is an attempt by the religious to subvert and devalue something based on science into some kind of religious doctrine.
I'm quite honored with the fact that your asking me questions you would ask a God or questions that only he can answer, I hadn't known you held in such high esteem. Thank you.But anyway,..You say religionists like to point out the micro flaws in science while bypassing the huge gaps in there bible and I say just as an evolutionist/creationist always loves pointing out the micro flaws of theology while bypassing the huge gaps there are in science, that's why they rely on theory, which is just an educational guess.
There are gaps in scientific knowledge. If scientific knowledge was complete then really science would cease to be. The difference is gaps in scientific knowledge can and are filled over time. The gaps in theology are set in stone and paper.
People living hundreds of years, people coming back to life, magical transmutations and healings, worldwide floods that never happened and somehow fitting every single species of animal in a wooden craft, while leaving all the plants to die. Whimsical, fanciful... illogical bullshit.
I'll reiterate.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There is proof of neither non-earth life nor God.
The difference however is that the latter is impossible to prove while the former is not necessarily so.
The latter also requires belief in the supernatural/spiritual, while, no matter how exotic the idea of non-Earth life may seem, the former is not a supernatural being or phenomena.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Well, duh. I think you'd be a real stupid person to think you're "going to see tiny people waving at us" via tele.What I'm saying is, or what he's saying rather, is that scientists are constantly finding planets that can support life due to it's environment. Well that's ok. If you can see evidence of potential life like air or other life sustaining elements but yet no know if life does or doesn't exist on said planet but assume it just does, cause it just might be is a pitiful wishful thought.
I heard the Earth was a lifeless rock for billions for years. That life has only been on Earth not even a billion years. That humans have been around just about a million years. Point is, just because a planet "seems" habitable, you shouldn't jump the gun and say "yippee!, aliens exist!" and look hopeless.
Actually, I didn't say scientists are forever finding planets that can support Life. What I did say was "Scientists are forever finding new planets. The conditions it seems have to be just right, but when they are life seems to hang on no matter what, as we can see in the history of earth."
Now, astronomers, physicist, people that study the the formation of planets have looked at what makes earth special - our position relative to the sun, other planets in the solar system, moons and the like - if there is life out there, the conditions have to be damn special to support it. The best chance, apparently, is to find a planet orbiting a similar sun to ours, in a similar position (because in the planet forming process elements become refined, certain gases move away, things accumulate. the things we need to live would be found on planets in a similar position relative to the sun), it should have planets beyond it's orbit to draw off dangerous space debris and so on.
That said planets that fulfill such criteria have been found. But, and it's a big but, there is no evidence they are habitable, or have life or anything - no body is sure, because of distance it is hard to determine things like air, oceans and the like. But the things that the experts believe need to be there for there to be a chance, even a really, really, really minute one, do exist. And if that really, really, really minute chance succeeded, then life really does hold on - as seen on earth. There are no certainties I will admit, but I think, with the size of the universe, and what has been discovered so far, that there is a chance there is life out there. Intelligent life? Who knows. But life. And yes, Earth was "dead" for a long, long time. But then the universe is believed to be about 13 billion years old, and there are plenty of stars older, younger or the same age as ours - so there has certainly been plenty of time for a planet to go through a similar process.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why would a creationist point out the flaws in theology. Evolutionist is not a word - it is an attempt by the religious to subvert and devalue something based on science into some kind of religious doctrine.There are gaps in scientific knowledge. If scientific knowledge was complete then really science would cease to be. The difference is gaps in scientific knowledge can and are filled over time. The gaps in theology are set in stone and paper.
People living hundreds of years, people coming back to life, magical transmutations and healings, worldwide floods that never happened and somehow fitting every single species of animal in a wooden craft, while leaving all the plants to die. Whimsical, fanciful... illogical bullshit.
I'll reiterate.
BS to you maybe, but not to the other billions of people on Earth. I said evolutionists, so what. It's my word I made up.
Scientific gaps are filled over time? Cancer and other life threatening diseases have been around since forever yet science hasn't found a cure "over time".
good come back... tic for tac arguments based on minor points don't win debates... Christianity has been around for 2000 yrs well... near enough... What solutions has it brought us?? while science has increased our life expectancy by about 20 - 40 years... not to mention computers/planes/cars... loads of improvements in our lifes... Religion has given us... The crusades/Spanish Inquisitions....etc...
Still evolution is the best theory as to how we came to be. Care to explain all the Junk DNA that god put in us?? or why he gave us bodys that could be infected with cancer? perhaps as to why god gave somepeople the chance of being born "defective"?
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
good come back... tic for tac arguments based on minor points don't win debates... Christianity has been around for 2000 yrs well... near enough... What solutions has it brought us?? while science has increased our life expectancy by about 20 - 40 years... not to mention computers/planes/cars... loads of improvements in our lifes... Religion has given us... The crusades/Spanish Inquisitions....etc...Still evolution is the best theory as to how we came to be. Care to explain all the Junk DNA that god put in us?? or why he gave us bodys that could be infected with cancer? perhaps as to why god gave somepeople the chance of being born "defective"?
Who's arguing, you are maybe, not me. I'm not trying to prove a point nor impose anything on you nor bash you or anything you believe in. I just wanna state what I feel adamant about whether you agree with me or not. This isn't a contest to me as it is to you, H&M. I'm not trying to have at any goal of final persuasion, what are you talking about, lol.
And you say science has brought all those wonders but you don't mention at what costs, and that's what I mean about "evolutionists" beating around the gaps in creationism while bashing products of faith and people who believe.
I dunno. I could never sit there and tell someone he or she is wrong or everything you believe in is bs when I myself have no proof of what I believe in or have no proof in what you believe in, exists. That'd be a very unintelligent thing to do, imho.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Who's arguing, you are maybe, not me. I'm not trying to prove a point nor impose anything on you nor bash you or anything you believe in. I just wanna state what I feel adamant about whether you agree with me or not. This isn't a contest to me as it is to you, H&M. I'm not trying to have at any goal of final persuasion, what are you talking about, lol.And you say science has brought all those wonders but you don't mention at what costs, and that's what I mean about "evolutionists" beating around the gaps in creationism while bashing products of faith and people who believe.
I dunno. I could never sit there and tell someone he or she is wrong or everything you believe in is bs when I myself have no proof of what I believe in or have no proof in what you believe in, exists. That'd be a very unintelligent thing to do, imho.
Would you like to try and prove anything you said... or is it just your made up oppinion??? seeing as I haven't said anything like that...
There have been plenty of mistakes.... But all of those have made life better rather then just living in our own filth we now have toilets...
well for my oppinion there is some proof... But there are some minor flaws like the missing link... remember there is only a .003% chance that a dying animal will be preserved... so its not suprising that the link isn't found easy.... While creationists have only there faith in a book.. and there ability to doubt everything else...