United States and Latin America - The 'Plan Colombia'

What are your thoughts on the (failing) of Plan Colombia?

Do you think it helped slash the cocaine production?
How do you feel about Bush's apparent shift from ''war on drugs'' to ''war on terrorism'' in Colombia?

Should United States be interfering in Colombian civil war? United States gave $2.5 billion to 'Plan colombia' which has (arguably) failed. Is it a good cause or waste of tax payers money?

Thoughts?

I think the fact that it's failed answers that question.

Bush is warring one thing, personal freedom.

-AC

I think 2.5 Billion was a waste.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I think the fact that it's failed answers that question.

Bush is warring one thing, personal freedom.

-AC

Not everyone agrees that the Plan Columbia failed, hence 'arguably' and the brackets.

What do you mean by the Bush comment?

I just read some info on this plan. I had not known about this until now. What I have read has lead me to this conclusion. The plan favors US oil business such as Harken which by coincidence, Bush has an involvement in. This favor translates into a Harken owning all the oil it drills in Colombia. I find this to be questionable and underhanded in its ends. The other side of the coin is that the war on drugs was always a stupid idea anyway so to change the phrasing may be just as dumb but then if it is a true effort to stop terrorism in Colombia I would have to say the shift makes sense. After all terrorist are fueled by drug sales. Please don't try to argue it isn't. The history of Colombia is inundated with assasination's and geurilla warfare, which depending on the facts, is terrorism on a political scale. So that is my view.

I think Bush should keep his sticky beak out of places it doesn't belong. Humanitarian aid is one thing, but telling a country how to rule and police itself is imperialistic.

anything bush does turns to shit, and like AC said, he's a threat to freedom

Originally posted by calvinNhobbes
I just read some info on this plan. I had not known about this until now. What I have read has lead me to this conclusion. The plan favors US oil business such as Harken which by coincidence, Bush has an involvement in. This favor translates into a Harken owning all the oil it drills in Colombia. I find this to be questionable and underhanded in its ends. The other side of the coin is that the war on drugs was always a stupid idea anyway so to change the phrasing may be just as dumb but then if it is a true effort to stop terrorism in Colombia I would have to say the shift makes sense. After all terrorist are fueled by drug sales. Please don't try to argue it isn't. The history of Colombia is inundated with assasination's and geurilla warfare, which depending on the facts, is terrorism on a political scale. So that is my view.

Yes, but Bush separatly training Columbians to protect his oil rigs is not terrorism?

Besides, Colombia is in a civil war between the rebels, Colombian Governemtn and Colombian army. America being there is the last thing thats needed.

Also, out of the $2.5billion 80% of that went into military training, as opposed to slashing coca production. Slashing coca production would slow dow the rebels as they get their funding from drugs - but bush seems to see that putting money into military in columbia somehow works better.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Also, out of the $2.5billion 80% of that went into military training

Sounds familiar eh? It happens almost everytime a developed nation gives international aid to an aggressive nation.
It all really comes down to where the money goes. Instead of giving them guns and soilders, why not clear some of the debts and let the countries regulate themselves. Without the excessive poverty, coca production would drop. This sounded great in my head.. doesn't type so well though!

Maybe if we started growing cocain here in the states, WE could have a civil war. Wouldn't that be fun? No...wait...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Yes, but Bush separatly training Columbians to protect his oil rigs is not terrorism?

Besides, Colombia is in a civil war between the rebels, Colombian Governemtn and Colombian army. America being there is the last thing thats needed.

Also, out of the $2.5billion 80% of that went into military training, as opposed to slashing coca production. Slashing coca production would slow dow the rebels as they get their funding from drugs - but bush seems to see that putting money into military in columbia somehow works better.

Originally posted by calvinNhobbes
Hey little bitchiness. Did you get your info from The Colombia Journal? I was just wondering because I was trying to find other resources to read to verify these numbers. Also how do you define terrorism? I don't think training an army to protect vested interests is terrorism, not exactly a fair distribution of monies but not terrorism either.

I got my resources from American Journal of Political Science and Latin American Political Review. My university subscribes to quite a few sites, so I get access on most.

There is a fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist - any group which is willing to endanger civilian life on the basis of making a political statement is a terrorist.

But thats only my understanding of course.

There is a fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist - any group which is willing to endanger civilian life on the basis of making a political statement is a terrorist

War on drugs eh? Seems somewhat ironic that since the liberation of Afghanistan that nation is experiencing a booming drug trade. Ironic as that the one of the things the Taliban actually tried to stop. It's a crazy world.

Still it continue to be very regrettable that the US gets involved in matters fro the wrong reason, and that more often then not they had a significant part in causing. As someone said aid is one thing, but to get involved in something that has such noticeable links to the appeasement of the oil industry is wrong. And wasteful, especially when it is failing.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
War on drugs eh? Seems somewhat ironic that since the liberation of Afghanistan that nation is experiencing a booming drug trade. Ironic as that the one of the things the Taliban actually tried to stop. It's a crazy world.

Still it continue to be very regrettable that the US gets involved in matters fro the wrong reason, and that more often then not they had a significant part in causing. As someone said aid is one thing, but to get involved in something that has such noticeable links to the appeasement of the oil industry is wrong. And wasteful, especially when it is failing.

The US is losing plenty of ground in Latin America, and will keep a stern grip on one of their most loyal allies in Colombia in helping turn the tide of leftists in the continent. Although the FARC certainly is not a group that is free of violations and crimes, certainly Bush would not want Uribe taken out because he is very friendly to US multinational corporations, as per the FARC want to nationalise all of Colombia's trade. Bad news for business if you're in high office. They cannot have that. The US must implement their "free markets" in third world countries.

Plan Colombia only helps thrive Colombia's drug trade, as the US funds Uribe, who then gives aid to his paramilitaries, who are responsible for the profits of such trade.