Kyp Durron (one of Luke's Apprentice) vs Darth Vader

Originally posted by Bobafetty
Actually there is a possibility. Vader is VERY in tuned with the force and as Dipsit said in one thread he could just use the force for all his battles and sit down on a chair enjoying it. He doesent even have to hold the saber. After all, Vader's father is the force.

OH MY GOODNESS. How can you forgive me, Boba? Boba's been getting bashed for backing me up (which is an extremely honorable thing to do, seeing as I know that Revan is his homeboy). I will attempt to right the wrong that I unwittingly brought on him (sorry I didn't come to back you earlier). The original idea, which Boba understood completely and receptively, was that Skywalker, not because he is the Chosen One, but because he has so friggin' much power that he could sit down and control the lightsaber with the Force. Who needs speed when you can make the lightsaber move through thin air with REFLEXES FASTER THAN ANY MUSCLE: your MIND. Being the Chosen One has absolutely nothing to do with it. Revan, however, is also EXTREMELY POWERFUL. He probably has potential comparable to Anakin (more than Yoda, for Christ's sake). So, I think that they are both guys who should not be jerked around. However, I also do not think that Anakin with his full potential (although, admittedly, he never reached his FULL potential, I still think he got close enough) would be easily beaten by Revan or vice-versa. I think that it would be a closer fight than some people think.

This, I believe, was the thought Boba was trying to convey. Vader doesn't need speed or agility when he has the Force and transcends hand-to-hand fighting - it's almost like he uses his arms to swing his lightsaber as a handicap for his opponents, but I know that that statement has no foundation.

Anyways, thanks, Boba. And to Windu and Habeo, I just thought I'd clear up that whole issue because I think Boba said something very wise and helpful.

Peace, friends.

why do u thank me ?i was on Revans side

vader lost a lot of power when he was put into the suit and kyp has become a master in NJO so it's going to be a close one and considering luke beat vader as a knight then i got to go with kyp.

Actually, though I disagree with your side, I'm going to unwisely give a point that will support it. Luke wasn't even a Jedi until he beat Vader (according to Yoda right before his death).

Anyways, why did he weaken after his accident? I mean, assuming that loss of body parts does not reduce one's midichlorians, I would think he'd become more powerful, seeing as the fight with Obi and Padme's death would intensify his anger like a magnifying lens held in the light - it would give him focus in his pure hatred (did you see what he did when he found that Padme had died? And I don't think he was even trying to destroy anything - the whole thing happened just because he was distraught and angry). Besides, he is the main enemy in the OT, and I take offense to the idea that OT was all a big joke in the scheme of things (as in that the antagonist from OT was a weakling).

As to Luke beating him, he was totally in control of the fight before Luke came out at him (Luke was hiding - Vader had that fight), when Vader found out about Leia and brought out Luke's anger. I think it was such a huge contrast from Luke's pervious display of power that Vader was caught utterly off-guard (like when Anakin beat Dooku - Dooku was more powerful than he was depicted, but he was unprepared for the change in pace of Anakin at the end). Besides, Luke is amazing.

Lastly, if GL said that Vader became weak after his accident, then that is contradicting the whole OT. I still stand by the original and still the best (except for maybe Revan, Sadow, and Ragnos - maaaybe someone like Tulak Hord as well). Sorry - I'm an oldschool kind of guy.

I'd assume that a lack of body parts would make someone have less midi chlorians. That's the way I always heard it. He didn't have the extremely high midi chlorian but he was still strong in the ways of the sith.

Another thing about Kyp is he has the agility and I think he could cross the line when he fights to take out vader. He has some pretty harsh feelings towards the Empire in general.

all things aside, i am so damn sick of revan.

he sucks.

You really think that? I believe he's the most powerful sith ever.

I'm tired of hearing about him too. How did he die so I can rub that in all his fanboys' faces.

he didn't.

he didn't die? if so i quit.

He is most certainly not the most powerful Sith ever.......the most homosexual....sure.

but did he die?

It is, I think, unknown - he is, at first, betrayed, and loses his memory, and then he comes back to power. The Star Forge is eventually destroyed, though, and Malak and Revan both fail. His ultimate end, I believe, is, however, never exactly specified.

Revan is a very strong enemy though and an even match for Luke any day.

Revan is one tough bastard, no doubt about that, but I think there are fights that he would lose one-on-one.

Probably, everyone has a character the're weak to.

Vader and the Fett's are vastly underrated on this site... Sometimes, it sickens me! 🙁

I have posted many times on how I think Vader is one of the top four or five Sith of all time. See my post at the top of this page.

revan is strongest

Originally posted by Darth L. Dipsit
Anyways, why did he weaken after his accident? I mean, assuming that loss of body parts does not reduce one's midichlorians, I would think he'd become more powerful, seeing as the fight with Obi and Padme's death would intensify his anger like a magnifying lens held in the light - it would give him focus in his pure hatred (did you see what he did when he found that Padme had died? And I don't think he was even trying to destroy anything - the whole thing happened just because he was distraught and angry). Besides, he is the main enemy in the OT, and I take offense to the idea that OT was all a big joke in the scheme of things (as in that the antagonist from OT was a weakling).

The loss of body parts does actually affect the amount of once midichlorians. Those things are in every cell of your body. So losing a great part of your body (both legs, an arm in Anakins case) will have a huge effect on your midichlorian count and thereby on your force potential.

If you now take the things said in the movies and the statments of GL himself it works like that:
In the movies Anakin has more power than Yoda or Sidious. Sidious himself said that Anakin will be better than Yoda and he said (during the battle with Yoda) that Anakin might be as powerful as both of them together.

So assume Anakin might have been 200 % Sidious.
According to GL Vader in Suit has only 80 % of Sidious power.
So Anakin had lost 60 % of his entire force potential from RotS and I think this is almost equal to the parts of his body he lost (almost an entire arm + almost 2 complete legs). So OT Vader is not THAT powerful. But he stil is 80 % of Sidious.

As to Luke beating him, he was totally in control of the fight before Luke came out at him (Luke was hiding - Vader had that fight), when Vader found out about Leia and brought out Luke's anger. I think it was such a huge contrast from Luke's pervious display of power that Vader was caught utterly off-guard (like when Anakin beat Dooku - Dooku was more powerful than he was depicted, but he was unprepared for the change in pace of Anakin at the end). Besides, Luke is amazing.

According to the information about midichlorians given, childen receive between 50 and 80 % of their parents midichlorians (or force potential). That would give Luke 50 to 80 % of Anakins original potential (100 - 160 % Sidious). So actually Luke has a greater force potential than OT Vader. Since the Dark Side is said to develop potential faster than the light side I would say Vader loses to Luke in RotJ because Luke gives into his anger and overwhelms Vader with force power.

Lastly, if GL said that Vader became weak after his accident, then that is contradicting the whole OT. I still stand by the original and still the best (except for maybe Revan, Sadow, and Ragnos - maaaybe someone like Tulak Hord as well). Sorry - I'm an oldschool kind of guy.

He became weaker but not THAT weak. He is still 80 % of Sidious in force power and when it comes to lightsaber combat he might outclass many people. OT Vader is only in his early - mid 40s. But he is also nothing compared to people like Ragnos, Sadow or Exar Kun.