Originally posted by pr1983
[B]yes there is a definate problem with rape cases nowadays, but what about the men who are falsely accused of raping a woman? guys get a pretty raw deal too...yes i agree charging rape offenders is something that needs to be sorted, but its not a woman only problem...
a lot of men are villified nowadays... did you hear the case of john leslie?
fact is, if a woman accuses a man of rape, the guy is f*cked whether the accusation is false or not...
if he's guilty, then string him up, if he's innocent... well he deserves better...
I just want to say thank you for the kind words and sympathy you have shown towards the personal experiences listed. I only wrote them as example but it was nice of you anyway.
In regards to the quote, this is the argument that is always presented when any type of reform is presented or suggested for rape cases, yes rape is bad but what about the innocent men? It's always about the innocent men who are supposedly accused all the time. It's never, what about the fact that women have been contiually raped since the beginning of recorded human time and if the archaeology, history texts and the animal kingdom the anything to go by probably before as well. People are more concerned with the men who are accused rather then the increasing number of recorded rape and and the overwhelming numbers of cases that are closed, never taken to court and unsolved as well as unrecorded. I don't agree with the few women who take ruin it for the millions of real rape victims, but that's the point, there is no balance or it's completely unbalanced. People are so pre-occupied with them and it's getting harder and harder for a victim to get through a court case or even to court or even finding the rapist if it was a stranger.
When it comes down to it, if a man or even a woman is accused (in this country anyway) they will spend one night in custody under questioning which is fair enough in the sense that if anybody is accused of anything they will taken in for questioning not just rape and guilty or not. If the police think they have the answers they need or the solicitor/barrister (if a barrister is involved) thinks they can win, gather enough evidence & testimony or give a strong case only then does it go to court and most do not get that far. So in the bigger persepective, whose getting the raw deal?
As for John Leslie, that case was not conclusive and it is not representative of 'innocent men' in rape cases and how they are treated at all, it was merely because he was a celebrity that it got all that publicity. Plus, this case involved two celebrities not just one. If it had been 'normal' people it wouldn't have gotten the attention it did and in many a rape case if it goes to court, the defendent usually has a number of character witnesses who aren't going to say 'yes, he's a bastard and most likely did do it' and the line of questioning aimed at the plaintiff is not easy or in many cases sympathetic. Rape is an incredibly difficult thing to prove unless there are obvious circumstances and witnesses but this is hardly ever the situation and in many cases will end up as inconclusive based on a lack of evidence other then the specific testimonies of the plaintif(s) and defendant(s). Many things are taken into account even things like whether she smiled at him or other such things that could have led him on, as if that's any justification but when it comes to getting the cut, representatives in court don't generall care.
If a person is innocent of any crime, then yes they deserve better, they shouldn't be accused or suspected in the first place, but that's in an ideal world and it unfortunately is not and rape is the worst of crimes other then cold blooded murder/torture to the point of. It's not practical and any suspect has to be at least questioned.
I'd also like to add again that sexual crimes are predominantly by men against women and attacks of a physical nature are usually accompanied by sexual harm inthe process. In the majority of cases where a man will be beaten as a victim a woman will be sexually assaulted or raped on top of it.
As for sexism not being a female centred problem, I didn't mean to imply that it was and I mentioned that it includes men, children, the issue and prejudices with homosexuality, paternal rights etc but I didn't go into them because I was responding primarily to the thread.
Women can get away with almost anything? I think that may be a generalisation and stereotype in itself and can be applied to many of the major issues from race to homosexuality to immigration or old age for axample. Take out the word 'women' and replace it with an appropriate term from the other issue groups and you've got the same line many 'anti' arguments use which usually intended to sweep complaints under the carpet.
Personally I dislike attention from people whistling, making comments thinking they're compliments or are arrogant enough to think you'd be flattered or make fun etc. I get that shite every single day but it's still more of a male orientated area. Hence the policies that were set a few years ago to stop builders from belittling or commenting etc towards female passerby's, the fact that there was a need for an official policy highlighted that it was a definite problem. Do you think that the number of boisterous and in some cases downright rude women or girls doing the same to men has increased to the point of being equal or more? It may be the case and if so I regret that and point out that the 'job' of feminists includes looking after all victims of sexism, it's just because the the victims of sexual discrimination have mainly been women in the past and the term 'feminism' that people don't seem to see it and known feminists in the media are continually having to argue that they are not just about the treatment of women but they are of course mainly associated with them.
Back to the whistling etc all I can say is that from everyone I've known it's my female friends that get it the most and other then when by myself, I only get it with my female friends and not male ones. It may also be partially dependent on the area in which people live as well as to how overtly obvious it is but in lond you do not see as many women watching men's arses as they walk down the street or whistling, trying to talk to them, or generally commenting. When that does blatantly happen it usually involves places which people associate with 'socialising' like pubs and bars etc and then yes, people of both sexes are doing it.
Also when I'm out with my partner, people always treat me like shit or as if I'm non existent. For example, when I'm with him and we go out, the people at the place will start talking to me and then just look at me as if I couldn't possibly understand and start talking to him instead and when people ask for directions they just look over me and ask him. Yet I'm the one who usually has the answers because I travel more and when I start talking they look at me with surprised expressions. It really pisses me off and maybe I'm just a magnet for rude behaviour lol but it happens continually.
Anyway I have to go for the moment but thanks again for responding calmly, it's nice to have debates or conversations with people without the defensive rudeness or aggressiveness all the time - I deal with enough of that for a living!