Big Boss & Solid Snake vs Raiden & Solidus Snake

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Once Raiden does all Solidus did with his swords, then he's a better swordfighter than Solidus. He got in a lucky move. When Solidus lost the snake-arms, his speed was made double. All he had to do is use one burst and he could have easily skewered Raiden. He did not make that burst in the scene. He was using only feet and not the accelerator which makes no sense.

I said RPG - rocket-propeled grenade. And Snake's Stinge rmissiles have no chance of locking on Solidus. He is way too fast. Anyone who has used that weapon knows it slimitations. Solidus, given a good area to dasha bout in, will be impossible to hit with that thing unless Snake has ungodly amounts of luck.

That is the thing about Snake...by all accounts he should have died quite a lot against most of his opponents. Examples include Gre Fox. If Fox had wanted to, Snake would have been dead. That's beyond question.Fox's mobility and strength are above anything Snake could have handled. And how is he gonna jump over Solidus' head if Solidus has the snake-arms? One effortless strike and he's right back down.

No one said all equipment. So, who knows.

If BB can kill Raiden off then a 2-on-1 is their best chance against Solidus.

Not really, luck is not what it was, there is no sign of luck. Raiden did an expert move and beat Solidus fair and square, it's not like they fought and then a safe fell in Solidus head, there is no sign of luck.
And how do you know Solidus didn't use the boost? He has to use it in gameplay, you can't stop he from doing it at least once, and it is clearly shown in the scene where he does it AWAY from you to upgrade his strenght, why not the way back?

Yeah, it can outspeed a Harrier but not Solidus?

And that is what I constantly hear every one say! "Fox is to fast for any human to handle, he's to strong, etc, etc, etc". If speed was alone was good enough to beat someone, then Raiden would never beat Vamp, Big Boss would never beat that guy in Portable Ops (who even looks faster than Gray Fox), and Solidus would not have been beaten by Raiden. There are loads of people that are beaten by slower people (and NOT with luck only), heck Snake defeated a similair opponent to Gray Fox in the earlier Metal Gear games, and probably the fastest man on earth.
In that game as well, he faced someone who had the strenght of 4 men, he faced Vulcan Raven who could lift a container the size of a smal house with one hand, Big Boss defeated Colonel Volgin in an unarmed battle, when Volgin can punch through a wall with ease, and has electrical attacks of 10 million volts.

I just wonder if he has an idea of who Mr. Twin Snakes Solid Snake is and what he has done.

Not really, luck is not what it was, there is no sign of luck. Raiden did an expert move and beat Solidus fair and square, it's not like they fought and then a safe fell in Solidus head, there is no sign of luck.
And how do you know Solidus didn't use the boost? He has to use it in gameplay, you can't stop he from doing it at least once, and it is clearly shown in the scene where he does it AWAY from you to upgrade his strenght, why not the way back?

Because it's the plot? The plot allows heroes to do things they damn well can't. Solidus did zoom away and lose the tentacles. However, in his death scene, he did not use any sort of boost. So, how is he using his full capabilties when one of his best advantages in speed is not even present?

Yeah, it can outspeed a Harrier but not Solidus?

You meen the HInd? When Snake jumps over the missile, he raises the launcher and basically has the exact luck to have Liquid hovering still without moving at all as well as the choppter right in the targetting sights. He didnt' ahve to lock on because the Hind was not moving and his ungodly amounts of luck...or skill or whatever it was allowed him to raise the launcher after jumping over a missile and point it straight at the Hind.

And that is what I constantly hear every one say! "Fox is to fast for any human to handle, he's to strong, etc, etc, etc". If speed was alone was good enough to beat someone, then Raiden would never beat Vamp, Big Boss would never beat that guy in Portable Ops (who even looks faster than Gray Fox), and Solidus would not have been beaten by Raiden. There are loads of people that are beaten by slower people (and NOT with luck only), heck Snake defeated a similair opponent to Gray Fox in the earlier Metal Gear games, and probably the fastest man on earth.

It doesn't matter, though. Going by what the facts are ie. list of powers and skills and abilities, Fox could have smoked Solid in an instant and Solidus could have smoked Raiden in an instant. But they didn't because the storyline would not allow for it. For example, say you never heard of Solid Snake. He's just a human. A very gifted soldier but human. How would he beat someone with speed, strength, mobility advantage? How would everything he tried on Fox not be blocked by a sword or dodged? How would he defend himself when he ran out of ammo and Fox shot him with his little blaster?

In that game as well, he faced someone who had the strenght of 4 men, he faced Vulcan Raven who could lift a container the size of a smal house with one hand, Big Boss defeated Colonel Volgin in an unarmed battle, when Volgin can punch through a wall with ease, and has electrical attacks of 10 million volts.

Only furthers my point. The plot demands the hero wins. But this is not a plot-induced stupidity match.T his is a match going on what they can do. And what Solidus can do is above anything Snake can do. Snake pulls out a gun. Yipee. Fires. Blocked. Runs out of ammo. Pulls out a Stinger. Tell me how he will lock on Solidus moving at full speed in every single direction and side?

It's not possible for Snake to win and yes ^, I have played Twin Snakesr and it was a good game but this is not a match where you factor in dumb luck. This i sa match where you factor in abilities and powers. Going by Solidus' showings of powers, nothing Snake has in his arsenal will be enough.

I find it hard to believe everything that Snake did in TS was simply sheer dumb luck. He is nicknamed the man that makes the impossible possible for a reason. Why neglate his feats while keeping Solidus' high end feats?

Snake was able to outrun Vulcan Raven's Turret and then fire a stinger at him. It won't be that hard for him to evade Solidus and blast him away, really. In my opinion the only time he ever got lucky was when Liquid was about to spread his brains all over the antartic and he was saved because of FOXDIE "killing" Liquid before it happened.

And you keep lowering Solid Snake claiming the plot demanded this and that, well the plot sure as hell didn't keep Snake from getting owned by Fortune.

If you had really played Twin Snakes you would've realized it wasn't dumb luck, but Snake's actual skills. Luck can only carry you so far in the battlefield. IMO the only time Snake got lucky was when Liquid was about to blast his brains all over and FOXDIE kicked in and kept that from happening.