Evangel's Amalgam Tournamen: Phase 2 [Round 2] Khellendros vs Digimark

Starting to run out of original counter-arguments...many of the same stuff has been said at least once or twice. Khell and I are obviously divided on quite a few things, like the extent of Loki's power, Apollo's fight speed, and which was one of us is stronger. Most of those I have dealt with efficiently, often citing issues to back up my claims (like with the strength and fight speed). With Loki being able to phase, teleport, cast magical bolts (that would be more powerful than those used by even Thor), all with merely a thought, he's a helluva asset to me. Khell mentioned Majestic once punching a guy who was rematerializing while teleporting. He assumes I'd teleport right behind him or close to him. It's simply to make me more elusive than I am already so that I'm dealing more damage than I'm taking. Majestic won't have the speed to hit me then.

When I do get my hits in (which I will with the aforementioned strength and speed) I'm far beyond even Million Ton level because of the suit...and I have a faster healing rate than Majestic could ever hope to have.

And all those feats of strength by Majestic? Sure, they're impressive, but Superman has moved planets (at least the moon that I know of), Surfer has destroyed planets (so have lots of other cosmic-level beings), Hulk is capable of similar feats....this is all to say that they're not far beyond what can be accomlished by many herald-level characters, including Apollo (especially suped up in the armor). Majestic might be the best stand-alone Supes-clone ever in terms of power, but this isn't base Apollo we're talking about, it's more like Uber-Apollo, and I have other powers to augment my character (Loki).

Internal matter control, not energy. You don't seem tob e grasping the difference. The shapeshifting and head reattachment would opnly require molecular control. He shows no evidence of controlling subatomic particles INTERNALLY.

This still requires you to get inside my shields and armor first (and we both know our thoughts on that)...it's not something you'll be using as soon a the fight starts.

Yeah well, I have you so outmatched in speed, I figured it would be nice to at least give you that much. IF you can land a hit, sure, it'll hurt.

I dealt with speed in my last post. I'm a lot closer than you think (Zod can hang Superman, and I'll inherit his speed, and I cited Apollo's fight with the 'speedster'😉 and will definitely be getting hits in. Given that, you've already admitted they'd hurt quite a bit.

...

Also, many times on this forum an important distiction was made between fighting speed and travel speed. For the purposes of this fight, that whole 'flying around the galaxy' thing means next-to-nothing.

As for you hitting me, a proper combination of phasing, teleportation, flight, shielding, and just regular fighting will mean you won't get nearly as many hits in on me as I will on you. You have the slight advantage i fight speed...but I make up for it with all of those. You'll be the one who's desperate to get hits in, not me.

-DM

I'm not real clear on how fast Zod's suit would charge Apollo... Especially since he would retain everything from his last fight. If it took Apollo a day or 2 a long distance from a sun to amp his strength well into the million ton range, I'd say direct contact with sunlight-emitting armor would put it way past that. And couldn't Digi stack Zod's red sun absorbtion on top of Apollo's? And (last one, I swear) does Apollo's speed or healing get better as he builds his charge up?

Everything about Apollo gets better as he builds his charge, so yes to your last question Dizzle (though, to be fair, he probably still wouldn't be at Wolverine level healing).

I've been cautious about how much the suit would amp Apollo, and while I do have him at Million+ ton level (which I've backed up with evidence) having the radiation right against him would probably do a helluva lot more for him than even I'm saying.

And adding Zod's radiation boost? Genius, but it may or may not work. To be honest, Zod levels out around Superman level, probably even slightly lower, so I'm not sure if it would augment my already beyond-Superman strength that Apollo will have with the suit on. It's an interesting theory, but not one that I'd be able to prove convincingly...so by all means, you're welcome to believe that theory if you want (hehe) but I won't try and pass it off as fact.

-DM

{Edit}

Wait a tick...you're saying add Zod's ability to absorb red-sun radiation to Apollo's ability? So I'd be absorbing the radiation at about twice the rate that Apollo would normally? That sounds a lot more plausible. Originally I thought you were just asking if I could add Zod's strength to Apollo's, which I can't. But the red-sun absorbancy is an "ability" and not "body", so if I used Zod's absorbing ability along with Apollo's my strength would increase at twice the rate, and the same would apply to every other area. Holy crap! That's useable, and legal within the tournament rules. So, anyone reading this, however strong you think I am (I'd have myself at at least Million+), double that.

Woot!

I was asking about whether Apollo's speed got better with his charge or not, since I think it plays a much bigger role than the healing does.

Speed, no. At least not that I know of. But he's fought a 'speedster' and managed to get hits in (the guy seemed on par with Quicksilver or slightly slower...but still fast) and also is a good, well-trained fighter to begin with (not quite as good as Majestic, but still darn good). So Apollo's speed is fine compared to Majestic, and I have a lot more going for me like phasing, teleportation, magical shields and my armor.

-DM

P.S. The fight with the fast guy I think was Volume 1 Issue 20. I said 18 the first time, but that was wrong.

P.P.S. Now that I think about it, it's Loki's fighting ability I'll be using, not Apollo's (since Loki is my "mind"😉. But Loki is thousands of years old, and has fought Surfer, Thor, etc. multiple times. These kinds of speeds are nothing new to him...and he's in the enhanced body of Apollo so he'll be even better than usual.

Voting For Digimark... My mind can change though... 👆

Voting for Khell...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
1. I have Zod's powers too...which includes laser vision, and speed capable of battling Superman, who is presumably slightly faster in a fight than Apollo. Nix those from Khell's already small list of advantages.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
2. I don't think I've made a big enough deal about my ability to phase. When used properly, I can become intangible when needed, then re-assemble to punch Majestic...making me even more elusive than otherwise. Loki can do this with a thought.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
4. Apollo has fought a "speedster" (of unknown speed, but with reflexes and speed surpassing normal beings). Apollo manages to grab him (and the guy looks stunned) and heat-vision him (not 'spread'...just straight-line). Admittedly, the speedster guy gets more hits in on Apollo than vice-versa, and Midnighter ends up taking him out, but Apollo manage to harm him and is fast enough to do this. All of this happens shortly after the Earth Inferno crisis in a stand-alone issue (forget the number...Volume 1, somewhere around 18). Apollo's up there in speed...I'd get plenty of hits in.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
P.P.S. Now that I think about it, it's Loki's fighting ability I'll be using, not Apollo's (since Loki is my "mind"😉. But Loki is thousands of years old, and has fought Surfer, Thor, etc. multiple times. These kinds of speeds are nothing new to him...and he's in the enhanced body of Apollo so he'll be even better than usual.

This match is going to be closed around June 21st 8:00 PM Pacific Standard time. Please cast your votes before then and remember the rules and eligibility about voting.

Arrrgghhh....I'm on the fence badly. Khell for now, it can be easily swayed to Digi's side though, very very easily.

Im surprised no one has gone and used the reverse dimension in their arguments. And no one previousely has used the special battle fields I've set up to their advantage.

Just because he has the ability to speedblitz opponents in a comic doesn't mean Superman always does. Unless you can name some combat speed feats, you just get another boost in flight speed.

But I also named some of Apollo's feats, like managing to fight the 'speedster'. He's fast enough by himself, and Loki inherits his speed.

Phasing isn't foolproof (just ask J'onn, who has been hit by certain energy blasts, including a form of heat vision) and for a guy who can sense electromagnetic fields, has hypersenses on par with Supes, and can change the frequency of his laser vision, phasing won't keep you safe for long.

It doesn't have to. I have multiple layers of shielding, and will be fighting you ferociously. Phasing is just a bonus. I rematerialize as soon as I need to, so your percious laser vision (which I have too, by the way, from Zod's abilities) won't be doing much.

...What? In volume 1, issues 17 to 20 ARE the Earth Inferno storyline, when they battle the evil Doctor. And if you're calling HIM a speedster, you're even more mixed up than I though.

Hmmmm...damnit. The collection I have doesn't have issue numbers. It happens directly after Earth Inferno. Some reanimated dead corpses come back to life from some death dimension and one of them is a really fast guy formerly named Amaze who has a mad on for Apollo and MN'er. MN'er takes him out but Apollo manages to grab him (Amaze appears stunned that he does so) and hit him with his heat vision.

LOL! Oh man, I didn't even think of that! Jeez, now you are in screwed. When has Loki EVER won a real fistfight with no mitigating circumstances? He is a trickster and a coward, which means you don't even get the measly few years of combat training Apollo had. Loki is class THIRTY, and knows that's not enough to ever hang with big hitters like Thor. The first time Blackstrom lands a hit and cracks his shield like an egg, Loki is likely to crap himself

What does Class 30 have to do with anything? Loki's a Class Million+ now thanks to Apollo and the suit. He's stalemated Surfer, fought Thor multiple times...and isn't afraid of a "heavy-hitter".

...

Khell's claim to fame still seems to be Majestic's slight advantage in fight speed. Otherwise I have him trumped in pretty much everything else. I have laser vision (Zod) will be healing faster (Apollo) and have a variety of tricks that I've already mentioned to make me more elusive (Loki).

Oh, and notice Khell didn;t mention anything about adding Zod's red-sun absorbancy to Apollo's. It's an "ability" of Zod's and therefore I would have access to it, thus making me absorb the radiation from the suit twice as fast. Now I'm leagues above even Majestic, if I wasn't already, because of this nifty little power addition. I'll also be healing twice as fast as before, and now will be so much stronger than Majestic one punch will make him start to cry. But I'm sure a slight combat-speed advantage will make up for all of that...

-DM

P.S. Where are the votes?? Losing is one thing, but after all of this debating, I'd rather not lose 3-1.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Im surprised no one has gone and used the reverse dimension in their arguments. And no one previousely has used the special battle fields I've set up to their advantage.

I tried briefly on page 1, but I don't know enough about the reverse dimension to make a strong argument one way or another.

***

I'm going to repeat this, since it's a rather new addition to my argument repertoire, and I think it's important...

I can add Zod's red-sun absorbancy to Apollo's allowing me to absorb the suit's radiation twice as fast. This will make me roughly twice as strong as I thought (which was already Million+) and heal faster. This is a big difference, and I believe would solidify my win.

-DM

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I can add Zod's red-sun absorbancy to Apollo's allowing me to absorb the suit's radiation twice as fast.

i disagree.... the red sun absorption is a physical attribute.... and even if it works, chances are his suit is designed to give off a specific amount of radiation to keep him at peak levels.... so additional absorption wouldn't matter

damn...... i don't want to vote.... lol...... it still seems pretty close to me.... nothing has really convinced me that either character is a significantly better combatant than the other.... Kinky with armour seems a little stronger... they seem to be about even in speed... Majestic's mind makes him a better fighter... but Loki's magic and shielding swings it back to Kinky.....hmmmmm

😕

ok.... i vote for Digimark

wow an old foe who ive come to respect
vs
a friend and ally who has suceeded my position

thats real tough.

after reading the short 3 pages of debate. . .
im going to have to go with DM. though the advantage of speed is important, it seems like that since kinky has almost all the other advantages at his disposal, there isnt much blackstorm can do to him.

vote for DM

Ha...you found a new Quick Freeze pic to go on the left there.

I count 3-3 right now.

Oh, and great fight Khell, regardless of how the voting turns out. Since this should be closing down soon, I'm done debating, but thanks to anyone who has voted for me or who will vote for me.

-DM

yeah long pig gave that pic to me!

Originally posted by Evangel94
Im surprised no one has gone and used the reverse dimension in their arguments. And no one previousely has used the special battle fields I've set up to their advantage.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
But I also named some of Apollo's feats, like managing to fight the 'speedster'. He's fast enough by himself, and Loki inherits his speed.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It doesn't have to. I have multiple layers of shielding, and will be fighting you ferociously. Phasing is just a bonus. I rematerialize as soon as I need to, so your percious laser vision (which I have too, by the way, from Zod's abilities) won't be doing much.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hmmmm...damnit. The collection I have doesn't have issue numbers. It happens directly after Earth Inferno. Some reanimated dead corpses come back to life from some death dimension and one of them is a really fast guy formerly named Amaze who has a mad on for Apollo and MN'er. MN'er takes him out but Apollo manages to grab him (Amaze appears stunned that he does so) and hit him with his heat vision.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
What does Class 30 have to do with anything? Loki's a Class Million+ now thanks to Apollo and the suit. He's stalemated Surfer, fought Thor multiple times...and isn't afraid of a "heavy-hitter".

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Khell's claim to fame still seems to be Majestic's slight advantage in fight speed. Otherwise I have him trumped in pretty much everything else. I have laser vision (Zod) will be healing faster (Apollo) and have a variety of tricks that I've already mentioned to make me more elusive (Loki).

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Oh, and notice Khell didn;t mention anything about adding Zod's red-sun absorbancy to Apollo's. It's an "ability" of Zod's and therefore I would have access to it, thus making me absorb the radiation from the suit twice as fast. Now I'm leagues above even Majestic, if I wasn't already, because of this nifty little power addition. I'll also be healing twice as fast as before, and now will be so much stronger than Majestic one punch will make him start to cry. But I'm sure a slight combat-speed advantage will make up for all of that...

You aren't leagues above Majestic. I'm sorry, but in terms of lifting mountain-size spaceship >>> "class 1 million" and a big statue. Now, take Majestic's mountian lifting, planet moving strength and triple it. Quadruple it. THAT is what you are facing.

Okay, I know I've already addressed it, but I can't let the second "slight speed advantage" comment slide. To put thing in perspective, that's like saying Wally West would have a slight speed advantage over Quicksilver. It's just friggin wrong.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
after reading the short 3 pages of debate. . .
im going to have to go with DM. though the advantage of speed is important, it seems like that since kinky has almost all the other advantages at his disposal, there isnt much blackstorm can do to him.

vote for DM

Well, if Majestic got hit by Supes, even "energy Supes", he's not at Flash-level. I have never said I'd be faster, only that I'm fast enough to get hits in and have enough other advantages going for me to make this a rather small point.

The issue with the speedster...It's called "The Breaks" and is a 1 of 1 issue...in the colection I have they put it directly after Earth Inferno. Apparently, it isn't considered to be a part of Volume 1, but as a bonus issue or something. The issue itself goes under the larger heading of "The Authority: 2000 Annual. Devil's Night"

And you guys are probably right about the "double absorbtion" thing. It was worth a try though. In any case, that doesn't change my outlook on the fight or my strategy.

-DM