Ken & Terry vs Ryu & Kyo

Originally posted by Hoshi
in fact ryu started training the ansatsuken before terry , he started since the day he was born , he is an orphan that didnt even know his parents face , and the only thing he does in life since 2 or evn 1 year old is train.Exp is a factor in ryus side.And if terry and kyo fight , kyo would at least make terry as tired as ryu from fighting ken.

Dude Terry was an orphan to bro he has yet to know his real parents. He was lucky to find a father figure in Jeff Bogard and that was taking from him. I am still trying to understand because you say Ryu has more experience than Terry because he is older and started training first BUT you also said that Kyo can beat Terry which Terry has got more experience than Kusanagi. Training at 1 years old? thats hilarious.

I disagree about Terry losing to Kyo...Bogard beats his ass and if Terry were to fight Kyo I can honestly say that he may have a fight but nothing like it woul be after Ryu fighting Ken.

Originally posted by peejayd
* hmm, i just don't want to go there...

* so, you are saying, to become the best or the strongest fighter, you have to be urged by evil intent? as a sort of graduation for being strong... hell no.

Not exactly, Ryu only ever became fully posessed ONCE during the entire SF Canon storyline, and it was when Ryu gave that Metsu Shoryuken to Sagat in SF1, causing the scar. Ryu OVERCAME the Evil Intent, and has become much stronger because he resisted it, in a way, it is a test of will that all practitioners of Ansatsuken must overcome, Akuma failed and thats why he's consumed by it.

Now consider this, Ryu's Satsui No Hadou manifested itself naturally within him, even though Ryu NEVER learned the killing arts of Ansatsuken (Because Gouken never taught his students these arts, beleiving them to lead down the same road his brother Akuma followed.)

Originally posted by peejayd
* Gouken (Akuma's brother & Ken's sensei) is considered the best fighter in his time... and he rejected the evil intent, so there were no urges that came to him...

Yes, thats true, however, let me remind you that Gouken fell to Akuma. And beleive me, Gouken would have had the urges earlier in his life, just like Akuma did. Ryu's urges however, where natural and therefore more primal.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i think otherwise... i think Ryu is too weak to be overcome by the dark urge... the only possible link is that: Ryu and Akuma are somehow related biologically...

Ah, but Ryu did overcome the Dark Hadou, it only ever really manifested itself once for like 2 seconds (During that Metsu Shoryuken that scarred Sagat) And because he overcame it, he was able to hang with the likes of Akuma and stand a decent chance of winning.

Originally posted by peejayd
* it clears up that Ken's heart or mind is purer than that of Ryu's...

It's not a matter of purity, the Satsui No Hadou is more or less the latent desire of the mind during battle, in Ryu's case in SF1, it was "I Must win, at any cost" This train of thought brought up the Satsui No Hadou in Ryu that powered his Metsu Shoryuken.

Ken has yet to experience a real battle that he felt he must win at any and all costs, even to the extent of killing his opponent to do so. Ryu and Ken never fought to kill, but in Sagat's case, Ryu was, for that one instant, prepared to kill Sagat to win the fight. Hence, the reason they call it "Killing Intent".

Correct. Killing intent is a more proper translation than "Evil intent."

And keep in mind that Akuma realized that Ryu had subdued and beaten the Satsui no Hado and still thought him a worthy adversary. No doubt they will clash soon in the future and it will be titanic.

Indeed, ever since SFA2, Akuma has been waiting for Ryu's power to truly manifest itself and come full circle. Once he has, Akuma knows that Ryu is perhaps the only one that can match him without succumbing to the Killing intent, and this is a major reason why alot of people here argue that Ryu's unseen potential is truly great, as it would have to be to stand up to Akuma's power.

Well, Akuma as of SFA 2 (Some two years before SFA 3 and even longer before SF 2) could floor an entire island with his power (Although whether or not he did this hasn't been officially confirmed. The cave in SFA 3 might or might not be from his island) I can only imagine how rough the final battle will be.

It did happen, that cave in SFA3 isn't Goukentou, that I can tell you for sure. There's too much of the story relying on that one event to dismiss it

Why do you say that now?

As I said, too many events in that ending hook up the rest of the alpha storyline, Kens win against Ryu for example, the only reason Ryu lost that fight was because he was thinking about what happened with Akuma

True.

I think it's interesting that Ken was equal with Ryu up until SF II despite being trained for less time, spending less time on the ideal of self perfection, and having a life and eventually sons!

I think they didn't want to undermine Ken's skill despite there being no real logical reason for Ken to be anywhere near Ryu in terms of fighting skills... which is understandable...

More like they didn't want to suddenly make Ken weaker (Considering that in SF 2 the original make, they were virtually identical) even though logic would dictate he was.

But since we have to take SF canon at face value, this means that Ken is potentially stronger than Ryu (Or a quicker learner) with less training and experience.

Well, in a way, Ken mastered different areas of Ansatsuken... Ken's Shoryuken technique is virtually flawless, (Storyline speaking of course)

Whereas Ryu has evenly trained in his art, making all of his moves effective in battle. IMO, Ken, although quick and has an effective Shoryuken, is still downgraded when compared to Ryu, Ryu can handle taking more hits than Ken, and all of his movesa, while not multihitters like Ken's, do pretty effective damage.

In other words, Ken's flashy, Ryu is efficient.

Indeed, but it's a matter of taste, not neccessarily power. Ken has the potential to be efficient just the same as Ryu could be flashy. For most intents and purposes, however, there is no clear one over the other.

I grant you that 😉

Originally posted by Deus Ex
More like they didn't want to suddenly make Ken weaker (Considering that in SF 2 the original make, they were virtually identical) even though logic would dictate he was.

But since we have to take SF canon at face value, this means that Ken is potentially stronger than Ryu (Or a quicker learner) with less training and experience.

But that doesn't neccessarily preclude that Ryu can top off much higher than Ken can. After all, Ryu practices all the time.

Since Ken and Kyo are the Quicker Learners, they should be the real rivals and Ryu and Terry should be the real rivals also since they both equal each other, am I right? 😄 😄 😎 😎

Darkstorm you told mutch about the story but ONE thing is wrong and that is that Akuma didn't reject the dark hadou!!!

THIS IS THE REAL THING ABOUT AKUMA HOW HE BECAME THIS WAY

AND THE RANKING DONE IN JAPAN :

Master Goutetsu taught his young sons, Akuma and Gouken the ways of the Shotokan Arts in Shotokan Dojo. Akuma was warned by Gouken and their ancestors not to use the forbidden techniques. Akuma thought his ancestors were foolish not to use these powerfull attacks that can unleash massive destruction. Of course Akuma didn't pay attention to them. One day he learned that ''Dark Hadou'' a dark energy existed within him. He was influenced to ALLOW AND CONSUME HIM, thus causing physical changes in his appearance. He later masterd the ''Shun Goku Satsu'' and killed his father, Goutetsu, Gouken saw it and fled and rebuilt the Shotokan Dojo somewhere else. There he taught hes pupils who were interested in learning the Shotokan Arts. His students , Dan, Ryu, Ken. Dan was kicked out the dojo due the fact that he was very inpatient and was fighting for all the wrong reasons. Dan's incomplete training is the reason why his moves are ineffective. Gouken focused on his trainig with Ryu and Ken. Both had great fighting potential and was deemed equal. Akuma spend years of searching for his brother Gouken, and was able to locate him after a while. They fought each other, but Gouken was outclassed by Akuma Messatsu techniques. Akuma slayed Gouken to protect his secret techniques from being revealed to the world. He later searched for a worrior named Gen, sice he was taught by his good freind Gouken. Akuma and Gen where equal but it was the age that weakend Gen. Akuma speared his life due the fact that Akuma believed that he will reveal the technique to anyone and cause he was ill. Gen met his demise a few moths later due to an illnes after the fight. NOW AKUMA SEEKS ONE OF GOUKEN'S STUDENTS THAT HE DEEMS WORTHY................AND................................
NOW RYU AND KEN TRAINS HARDER TO SOMEDAY CONFRONT THE ONE WHO MURDERD THEIR MASTER IN FRONT OF THEM!!!

RANKINGS :

NOTE I DIDN'T MAKE THE TIERS MYSELF, Capcom did in fact publish and ranked in Japan!!

class 1 : AKUMA, Oro, Gill,
Akuma and gill should be obvious to the majorty. However, oro might have surprised you a bit. After the Dark Hadou consumed Akuma his powers boosed immensely. To top it all he's been training ever since. It's no wonder he can destroy Islands and Mountains in Alpha. Gill has the most interesting combination of powers. He can manipulate ice and fire and not to mention his boss status in SF3. And Oro wasn't even trying to defeat ryu in the tournament of SF3, since he was handicapped

Class 2 : Bison, Evil Ryu, Ryu, Q and Sagat

Capcom hinted that Q is quite powerfull, however, not mutch is know about this character. He's suppose to be one of the ''mysterious'' characters in the series. Bison should have been higher, but since his Psycho Drive was destroyed, his powers were greatly depleted.

Class 3 : Ken, Charlie, Gen, Rose and Urien

Ken is a little out of focused, due the fact that he has a family to take care of and Ryu has all the time of the world to train. Charlie is said to be a very powerfull fighter that was never given the oppertunity to reach his full potential. Rose can be compared to a toned down Bison and Urien to a down Gill. Gen is a very powerfull character and i shouldn't even have to explain it, you should know by now! Back in the Alpha series Gen was as strong as Akuma, it's just that his age weakend him greatly

MUST I GO ON WITH THE CLASSES???? KEN SHOULD BE ABLE TO DEFEAT SAGAT AND Q..........I DON'T KNOW HE IS OUT OF FOCUS( A SAD LIST HA😖 )

Class 4 : Chun Li, Guile, Hugo and Vega

Guile stopped training after the Lpha series and Chun Li hasn't been training mutch either.... So that explains why they were ranked lower than they were supposed to. And Vega is a highly skilled fighter that is second only to Bison in the Shadowlaw Organization. Hugo on the other hand, survived one of Ryu's most powerfull techniques called ''Shin Shoryuken'', He must be tough to survived it without being knocked out!

Class 5 : Alex, Adon, Balrog, Cammy, Cody, Dhalsim, Guy, Sakura, Thunder Hawk and Zangief

You might notice that most of the street fighter 3 characters didn't make the cut.... You might also be wondering why Alex is lower than Ryu even though Alex defeated him in the tournament..This is because Ryu lost to Oro, and Oro didn't show up to the match with Alex. So his victory was marely a fluke. Sakura can easily be in a higher class with proper training. She can manipulate her Ki on a high level vack in the Alpha Series and learned Ryu's figting style by just watching!! Imagine how poerfull she would be if she had a real trainer. Guy is a Bushin Master and Cammy is a top assassin. Everyone else is self-explanatory I guess.

Wel This were the rankings. I know that ryu has beat opponents that were higher then him same as for ken 😖 they should have been in the same class!!

questions come to me 😉