I don't know who would win for sure, but I will try to defend Yoda a bit just to help his cause.
freezing a senate isn't all that great to me, Sidious basically turned them to his cause, and these aren't Force users here. As for Vodo, I really don't think he was like Yoda. He was probably a consular, wise, and powerful but as good as Yoda? Doubtful. Jedi council members just 40 years later are a pushover for the Exile, and when he fought Exar he was trying to turn him back to the light side.
He was the most powerful student Vodo trained, while that is good, he isn't 900 so he probably only trained maybe 30 students if he was an instructor and not a master-padawan type guy. As for Exar learning, I don't know where you got Marka Ragnos. He claimed Exar as Dark lord but that was about it. He did learn from Freedon's spirit who learned from Naga Sadow though, which isn't bad but Freedon had Exar begging for life twice in which he was forced to use the dark side to live. He also got some amulet that increased his power and helped him to kill Freedon's spirit. Exar did drain the life out of the massassi race to preserve his spirit in the walls of the temples, which was smart and impressive. I don't know if the thousands of Jedi thing is right, but I don't have anything to contradict it so I will believe it.
About the Jedi not knowing he was recruiting Sith, Sidious talked to all the masters and they had no idea he was a Sith Lord, Revan was training Sith on Malachor V and the Jedi didn't know until he revealed himself so I don't think it's that much of an accomplishment. Lying to masters again, not that great since Revan could do it when he didn't even have the Force. He did invent the double bladed saber but it didn't give Maul much of an advantage on Qui-Gon and Obi who had never seen one so with Yoda's 900 years and hearing about Maul, I don't think it would give him much of an advantage, especially with how Yoda fights.
As for the cortosis weave, it is armor so it would slow him down a bit too, and look at the dozens of shadowtroopers that had cortosis suits and Kyle still defeated them with little difficulty. It might help him a bit, but not much. And while Exar has a vast amount of knowledge, so does Yoda. He knows the light side better than perhaps anyone, and he knows of the Dark Side too and how to fight it.
As for the Sidious fight, it looked pretty clear to me that Yoda was winning. It took Sidious' lightning to blast Yoda against the wall but he got back up without even breathing hard and knocked Sidious back even farther with just a Force push. Sidious even tried to run away, and then he called in the clones! Yoda dodged the senate pods and grabbed one Sidious was holding, spinned it around and shoved it back in his face. The only good move Sidious had was when Yoda jumped over to Sidious' pod, he caught Yoda off guard with a quick lightning blast to his lightsaber, and only because they were so high up did it help any. Then Sidious pours his lightning into Yoda who blocks it with his hands! Mace was struggling to keep it back with a lightsaber and Yoda reflected it back at him with his hands. Now granted they were both flung backwards, but it's simple chance that Sidious had something to grab onto and Yoda didn't, and after his fall and sensing the clones coming with his lightsaber gone, it's no surprise that he left.
Exar was a little arrogant, even as a spirit, so seeing an old two foot tall green dude might make him think the fight would be easy and therefore give Yoda an edge. Again, I'm not too sure who would win but I think the fight would be close...
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I don't know who would win for sure, but I will try to defend Yoda a bit just to help his cause.freezing a senate isn't all that great to me, Sidious basically turned them to his cause, and these aren't Force users here. As for Vodo, I really don't think he was like Yoda. He was probably a consular, wise, and powerful but as good as Yoda? Doubtful. Jedi council members just 40 years later are a pushover for the Exile, and when he fought Exar he was trying to turn him back to the light side.
He was the most powerful student Vodo trained, while that is good, he isn't 900 so he probably only trained maybe 30 students if he was an instructor and not a master-padawan type guy. As for Exar learning, I don't know where you got Marka Ragnos. He claimed Exar as Dark lord but that was about it. He did learn from Freedon's spirit who learned from Naga Sadow though, which isn't bad but Freedon had Exar begging for life twice in which he was forced to use the dark side to live. He also got some amulet that increased his power and helped him to kill Freedon's spirit. Exar did drain the life out of the massassi race to preserve his spirit in the walls of the temples, which was smart and impressive. I don't know if the thousands of Jedi thing is right, but I don't have anything to contradict it so I will believe it.
About the Jedi not knowing he was recruiting Sith, Sidious talked to all the masters and they had no idea he was a Sith Lord, Revan was training Sith on Malachor V and the Jedi didn't know until he revealed himself so I don't think it's that much of an accomplishment. Lying to masters again, not that great since Revan could do it when he didn't even have the Force. He did invent the double bladed saber but it didn't give Maul much of an advantage on Qui-Gon and Obi who had never seen one so with Yoda's 900 years and hearing about Maul, I don't think it would give him much of an advantage, especially with how Yoda fights.
As for the cortosis weave, it is armor so it would slow him down a bit too, and look at the dozens of shadowtroopers that had cortosis suits and Kyle still defeated them with little difficulty. It might help him a bit, but not much. And while Exar has a vast amount of knowledge, so does Yoda. He knows the light side better than perhaps anyone, and he knows of the Dark Side too and how to fight it.
As for the Sidious fight, it looked pretty clear to me that Yoda was winning. It took Sidious' lightning to blast Yoda against the wall but he got back up without even breathing hard and knocked Sidious back even farther with just a Force push. Sidious even tried to run away, and then he called in the clones! Yoda dodged the senate pods and grabbed one Sidious was holding, spinned it around and shoved it back in his face. The only good move Sidious had was when Yoda jumped over to Sidious' pod, he caught Yoda off guard with a quick lightning blast to his lightsaber, and only because they were so high up did it help any. Then Sidious pours his lightning into Yoda who blocks it with his hands! Mace was struggling to keep it back with a lightsaber and Yoda reflected it back at him with his hands. Now granted they were both flung backwards, but it's simple chance that Sidious had something to grab onto and Yoda didn't, and after his fall and sensing the clones coming with his lightsaber gone, it's no surprise that he left.
Exar was a little arrogant, even as a spirit, so seeing an old two foot tall green dude might make him think the fight would be easy and therefore give Yoda an edge. Again, I'm not too sure who would win but I think the fight would be close...
About freezing the senate, actually it is more impressive than you think because there were jedi there, he was able to freeze them and only Vodo could resist.
And yes, had forgotten that Marka only proclaimed him as dark lord
Also, I don't know Vodo's exact age, but I'm pretty sure it is over a hundred.
For the recruiting part, yes Sidious could talk to the masters and they didn't have a clue, and yes Revan could train them on Malachor V, but Exar recruited them on Ossus, the heart of the jedi order. He stood in the middle of the streets and recruited jedi, directly in front of the jedi masters, and only one had any idea what was going on. He even demonstarted the power of a sith amulet he had (which belonged to some ancient sith lord, I think Marka), that reaked of the dark side and no jedi could even sense it.
And yes, Yoda does have great knowledge of the force, but he does not have the artifacts from Ossus, which Exar does. Why can he not have these artifacts, because after Exar took them, he blew up and the sun, which destroyed the planet. About Yoda knowing about the dark side, yes he does, but not anywhere near what Exar does, he was able to study from Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow's personal notes.
And yes, Yoda was winning the Sidious fight, but it was still not a quick victory, and Exar is far more powerful than Sid is. After all, if Sid was more powerful, than there would be no need for the Death Star, he could blow up a planet on his own.
And sure Exar was arrogant, but his own master was only 2-3 feet tall so he knows the power of the little guys and probably wouldn't underestimate him as much as you think.
Excellent points, didn't know there were Jedi in the senate, or Vodo's age. I still think it's a little cheap that the amulet increases his power by wearing it though.
My point about Yoda was he knows way more about the light side, obviously not as much about the dark side, but still more than one might think. And... well I've run out of things to support him with. Still haven't voted yet, though I am leaning a bit towards Exar...
Oh yes it is cheap that wearing the amulet increases his power, I won't argue with that, however it is a fact so I will say it in threads.
And about Yoda, yes he does know far more about the lightside than Exar does, but Exar knows a fair bit as well, and he knows WAY more about the darkside than Yoda does. This is how I see it (these are made up numbers and should not be quoted):
Yoda knows 90% of the lightside and 25-30% of the dark side
Exar knows 90-95% of the darkside and 35-40% of the lightside (I got that because he studied under Vodo and took lots of stuff from Ossus)
So when you look at those numbers, they both know a lot, and Yoda knows far more about the LS than Exar, but Exar isn't to shabby in that area and knows far more than Yoda in the DS, which is also more based on attack
I guess I will just throw in some random facts.
Sorry, but Yoda has seen double bladed lightsabers before. The Jedi Brutes use them to defend the temple.
Vodo was six hundred when he died.
GL said in a recent interview that if he makes anymore SW movies they will probably be about Yoda fighting Dark Jedi in his youth.
When Exar attacked Luke's Academy, he had the energy of an entire race to back him up.
Glentract, thanks for the info on Vodo's age.
However, on your other points, Exar did not have the power of a race behind him when he attacked, he had been dormant for 4000+ years and has lost most if not all of that power.
And dealing with the bit about jedi brutes, personally I cannot believe jedi would call themselves brutes. Also, why then does no jedi in any recent book or movie (dealing with that era) use a double-blade. Sure they use them in the RotS game, but I think that was just thrown in to appease the fans, I don't believe that it is really true
Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
Oh yes it is cheap that wearing the amulet increases his power, I won't argue with that, however it is a fact so I will say it in threads.And about Yoda, yes he does know far more about the lightside than Exar does, but Exar knows a fair bit as well, and he knows WAY more about the darkside than Yoda does. This is how I see it (these are made up numbers and should not be quoted):
Yoda knows 90% of the lightside and 25-30% of the dark side
Exar knows 90-95% of the darkside and 35-40% of the lightside (I got that because he studied under Vodo and took lots of stuff from Ossus)So when you look at those numbers, they both know a lot, and Yoda knows far more about the LS than Exar, but Exar isn't to shabby in that area and knows far more than Yoda in the DS, which is also more based on attack
Cool.
I would say Yoda knows 95-99% of the light side and Exar knows a flat 90% of dark side myself. Still, they are pretty equal in knowledge.
As for your later statement that Exar lost almost all his power, I hardly agree. Like Glentract said, he had the power of the massassi race drained into the temples which were a conduit for Force energy so I really think his power remained the same as a spirit which IMO would be roughly 35% or so of his full power when he died.
When I said that he lost most of his power I meant more that he lost all the power that the massassani had given him and some of his own and as for what makes me think that, well it is accepted fact that spirits grow weaker over time, Exar had been a spirit for over 4000 years, thus it stands to reason that he lost a lot of power
But his spirit doesn't matter, this is him in the flesh versus Yoda, and I think he can take it.
Oh, about your thing about Yoda fighting dark jedi in his youth, possible but I doubt it. Maybe he met up with Bane or somthing, but that would have been in Yoda's 30s. And for other people, sure he faced the nightsisters, but they have no lightsabers and their force powers are cheap impersonations of the sith teachings. I actually think it is something that they could repel Yoda, when they had only fragments of sith/jedi teachings, against someone like Exar who knows far more about the force than the nightsisters could learn in a dozen lifetimes, Yoda would be taken out even easier. Those are really the only opponents he could have faced unless you count the lost 20. Even there it is only 19 he could have possibly faced (Dooku was the last one and Yoda only faced him once), and out of those 19, I do not believe that all of them would fall to the dark side, maybe 4-8 at most, so Yoda does not have anywhere near the combat experience of Exar.
For the double-bladed lightsabers, I cannot disprove it, but even 4000 years before Yoda (in the time of KotOR), double blades are looked down on and described as not widely used because they are more agressive and are more like something a dark jedi uses (or something like that), so if they were looked down on 4000 years ago, I find it doubtful that they would be used in Yoda's conservative time
Bastila used a double bladed lightsaber. There, now you don't have to imagine it.
GL even said in a recent interview that if he does anymore movies, they will be about Yoda in his youth fighting dark Jedi, not 7, 8, and 9. Therefore, he has fought many darkjedi. In one of the movies(I think it was a movie, it may have been a book) that he faced great trials in his youth, more than any other Jedi alive when he went through them. I believe that he is refering to the darkjedi that he fought when he talks about this.
and if you will read above, you will see that she used it 4000 years ago and even then it was looked down on. Yoda's time is far more conservative so would certainly not use them. How do I know Yoda's time is more conservative, well they didn't want to accept Anakin for training at age 9, in Exar's time (only 40 years before Bastila) they were accepting 20-30 year olds for training (Nomi Sunrider being an example of this), they were also allowed to have kids and lovers. Also Vodo trained several jedi at a time and had several padawans, in Yoda's time that was unthinkable.