Originally posted by Darth Sevius
Nothing Luke has done outside of the movies is canon... nothing at all. I realize this is an EU forum, but it doesn't change that fact. I could come up w/ my own character, give him powers damn near equaling a god, and say he is the most powerful/greatest/whatever. If it ain't canon, it ain't shit.
Sure you can create your own character, but who will give a shit? There are several levels of cannon, incase you didn't know.
Originally posted by Darth Sevius
Going w/ the philosophy that non-canon characters count; we should by no means exclude Revan due to him being a game character, or the Jedi Exile, or anyone else.
So if I played through KoToR/2 and didn't learn any force moves would that be the Revan/Exile you're talking about? Or should they know every ability? Or maybe only the ones you want them to learn?
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
I really don't know where we are going with this at all. Are you saying the EU books are cannon now in your eyes or do you still want us to not believe in it or something?
Not at all VR. I'm simply stating that when comparing who's more badass, the EU novels hold less weight than the movies, and movie novelizations. So therefore, it's difficult to use Luke's EU experiences/abilities when comparing him to other SW characters from the movies and movie novelizations. Maybe at some point in the future, GL will direct the path that Luke takes (authoritatively). Until that happens, I can't speculate on his power outside of what I've seen in the movies.
CANON/CONTINUITYNo one area is more controversial than this one. To define exactly what is meant here, ‘canon’ is a term that refers to accepted continuity. On the most basic level, if two different Star Wars stories contain contradicting events, the one that is correct (if any!) is called the ‘canon’ version.
By extending that concept, the ‘canon’ of a setting is the combination of all those stories and events which are ‘correct’. Anything outside the canon is considered speculation, imaginary, or simply plain wrong.
The arguments over what is and is not canon in Star Wars have become almost biblical in proportion, and the centrepiece of that argument is how canon is the EU compared to the films.
The most important thing to stress here is that all produced Star Wars is for yourself to enjoy. Whatever interpretation you want to put on what is and is not so is absolutely your business.
However, a simple ‘live and let live’ policy in that area does not work so well on these forums because it encourages endless arguments that absolutely can never be resolved. As a result of this, we operate a ‘canon policy’ on these forums that means we can settle these issues if need be. If such a policy goes against what you believe, then I apologise but we do have to set a standard. For what it is worth, we believe our canon policy is based on sensible and appropriate grounds, taken from the fundamental premise that George Lucas is king of all things Star Wars, that the films are the most important part of Star Wars, and everything else must be judged relevant to those two factors.
I must absolutely stress the point that none of this is based on simple personal preference. There is sometimes a feeling, for example, that some people seek to cut the EU out of continuity because they dislike it. Well, speaking personally, I don’t like Return of the Jedi, but that doesn’t mean I want to cut it out of continuity. All decisions in this area are based on statements by George Lucas and senior members of Lucasfilm. If they clearly and unequivocally change their minds, so shall we.
Of course, although there was a time when it seemed their intentions here were clear, various officials have contradicted each other- or even changes their stories- so many times that this is no longer the case. In fact, there is no single, unambiguously stated continuity policy from Lucasfilm that covers the entire range. There IS a continuity approach for the EU in particular, but the same man who constructs it is the one who has clearly said that Lucasfilm has none of its own. If there WAS such a clear approach, then there would at least be no argument, but there you go.
Here, then, is canon policy as applied at these forums:
1. As far as the film sections are concerned, the EU does not exist. These sections are in a continuity where everything is down to the films- although points arising from film-related material (novels, scripts, radio plays) can be brought into things.
2. As far as the EU section is concerned, the films are the most important canon. The rest of the canon is rated in-house as part of an ongoing continuity effort by the makers and as much as it can be, that can be treated as the way of things here. Generally speaking, books are very canon, computer games aren’t, but it’s not quite as simple as that. Ask around and you shall find out.
3. Anything George Lucas says about the Star Wars universe is incontestable. We kinda take that as a point of common sense.
That’s more or less it. Below I will state the justifications for this policy
A. Both Lucasfilm and George Lucas himself have made it clear that he only considers the films themselves as ‘canon’, not that he uses that term. This is nothing to do with a statement of quality on the EU, it’s almost certainly a creative approach so that he does not get hemmed in by anything the EU says. And indeed, he has run pretty roughshod over EU elements in making the Prequel films, from the term ‘Darth’ to Boba Fett. Of course, George is not afraid to nick things he likes from the EU, like the name ‘Coruscant’, but that only applies to the individual elements concerned.
B. The people in charge of the EU operate the Holocron, the attempt to build one broad continuity, and it is their rules that the films- the so-called ‘G’-canon- trumps everything else in EU continuity.
I don’t want to get into some kind of evidence war, but I will provide two quotes here that give context to our decisions here. The first is from Steve Sansweet, Lucasfilm’s head of fan relations, when directly asked a question on the Star Wars website relating to Boba Fett’s death in ROTJ compared to him being alive in the EU.
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences."
He went onto explain that George Lucas considers Boba Fett dead in the films, yet alive in the EU. This, of course, was an enormous clue as to how as far as GL is concerned, they do not share the same continuity. Clues are not necessary, though, as he made the point clear himself in a later magazine interview between Episodes II and III:
”There are two worlds here ... There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe - the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe."
So as we can see, GL likes this healthy layer of separation- as I say, I would imagine this is for creative reasons. This is also creatively beneficial for the EU as well, as it can experiment and develop plots without being ‘chained in’ by whatever George wants for a certain situation. Of course, George does have some creative input into the EU, but only, again, for very particular things; that’s not a general policy.
Do remember that anything that is a George Lucas story is NOT EU. That’s not only the films, but all direct adaptations of them. In fact, the EU is a specific line of products, books, games and comics. Things like the website are not EU (and not any form of canon either, though generally the website is a good guideline). In some areas, it has been known for the term ‘EU’ to mean the same thing as ‘non-canon’. That really makes no sense. For a start, the EU has is own canon. Secondly, EU isn’t out of canon with the films by default; it is simply because George Lucas seems to prefer it that way.
Again, I am sorry if anyone does not agree with this line of reasoning. But it is the line of reasoning we apply here, and please do respect that.
Contrary to popular belief, coming to the EU section of a forum and saying 'NO' emphatically enough does not, in fact, invalidate the universe being discussed. You are free to ignore everything but the films but you will not have much to say. These are the rules (it was in the rulez thread). May der Fuhrer have mercy on your soul should you decide to break them.