Human Torch vs Iceman

Originally posted by Wynndar
Torch trains more and has way more experience. Iceman cant freeze torch's brain or anything...torch has complete control of the heat energy around him....I would ssay his control is more powerful than Iceman's. Torch has control of heat energy...if he wants, although he rarely does it, torch can freeze things as well...

Torch has about 3 years experience on Iceman at most. I think any x-men trains more than a F.F member.

Ummm. Torch can control the heat and flow of his blood? If so, can you prove that?

How do X-men train more than the FF....Iceman hasnt even been on the roster of the X-men the whole time. Torch doesnt have any special blood flow controlling powers...but he has ultimate control of temperature in his vacinity...read the issue of FF where he beat graviton.

Iceman freezes molecules surrounding the flame which is full of them, the flame stops, torch crashes midair and dies.

Originally posted by Wynndar
How do X-men train more than the FF....Iceman hasnt even been on the roster of the X-men the whole time. Torch doesnt have any special blood flow controlling powers...but he has ultimate control of temperature in his vacinity...read the issue of FF where he beat graviton.

Danger room perhaps. True Iceman hasnt been on the roster the whole time, but he left heroing for no more than 3 years.

Plus the threats X-men deal with on a basis are more than what the FF deals with on a daily basis.

Iceman has ultimate control of temperature in his vacinity as well. But having control of temerature inside you is different from having control over the temp around you.

When Torch and Iceman fought, Torch tried to make a fire ring around Bobby, but Iceman made a rain cloud and douced the fire ring as well as Torch.

Torch had to land before he went splat on the concrete, then engaged Bobby in hand to hand.

Iceman cant freeze the molecules around Torch because Torch has control of the temperature in his vicinity...even the temperature of the bodies of people around him...read his fight with graviton. and how can u freeze plasma into ice? Its not hot water vapor around the Torch, its plasma, just a bunch of protons, neutrons, and electrons bouncing around with no atomic structure...not water.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Iceman cant freeze the molecules around Torch because Torch has control of the temperature in his vicinity...even the temperature of the bodies of people around him...read his fight with graviton. and how can u freeze plasma into ice? Its not hot water vapor around the Torch, its plasma, just a bunch of protons, neutrons, and electrons bouncing around with no atomic structure...not water.

Iceman controls the temperature around him as well.

Freeze plazma into ice? Iceman doesnt have to frze anything. When they fought, he simply made a rain cloud and the rain douced his flame. No ice.

This is the new iceman, who can do some things to superman, torch stands no chance, the FF is a different story, but I'm still undecided.

Im talking aobout new and classic.

The comic im reffering to was their team up issue from the 70's. He clearly had more control over Torch in that battle.

I had assumed current, which is a 10/10 easily.

The F4 would get their asses handed to them fighting Superman.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman controls the temperature around him as well.

Freeze plazma into ice? Iceman doesnt have to frze anything. When they fought, he simply made a rain cloud and the rain douced his flame. No ice.

Concerning Torch being doused, thats totally up to the writer...but if Torch elavates his level high enough, no matter of water will douse it....U realize the Torch has burned right through the entire planet Mars and popped out the other side...and that he once burned a hole right to the core of the planet and heated it up causing the Earth to increase in size? Torch doesnt use his most intense flame against other good guys like Drake...but if he did use Nova on Drake he would be atomized and dead.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I had assumed current, which is a 10/10 easily.

Current Torch?

What are his powers?

Originally posted by Wynndar
Concerning Torch being doused, thats totally up to the writer...but if Torch elavates his level high enough, no matter of water will douse it....U realize the Torch has burned right through the entire planet Mars and popped out the other side...and that he once burned a hole right to the core of the planet and heated it up causing the Earth to increase in size? Torch doesnt use his most intense flame against other good guys like Drake...but if he did use Nova on Drake he would be atomized and dead.

You just proved what ive been trying to say. Torch's natural flame can and has neen douced.

He has to make the flame go nova in order to evaporate the water on contact? Of course Bobby would be atomized. I dont doubt that.

However.....Iceman freezing the blood flow to the brain is instant. Torch going nova isnt. That was the point i was trying to make.

limited control of EM spectrum between Infrared and Ultraviolet, Ability to match the heat of a small star, ability to create flame constructs and images, ability to control temperature in his vacinity to an undetermined distance, etc

That sounds like regular Torch to me.

No upgrades or anything? How does he stalemate current Iceman?

Current Iceman kills current torch pretty easily. The only way he could be destroyed is if Johnny went nova and atomized/ionized Bobby and he couldn't do that before Bobby's killed him.

Classic Iceman vs Torch is probably a stalemate.

his powers continually grow with time. He doesnt need upgrades...Iceman has never faced the Torch when he was using excessive temperatures or powers. When he fights someone who is a big threat and or elemental like him ie Graviton, then he really cuts loose....read the fight between him and Graviton, its really good.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Current Iceman kills current torch pretty easily. The only way he could be destroyed is if Johnny went nova and atomized/ionized Bobby and he couldn't do that before Bobby's killed him.

Classic Iceman vs Torch is probably a stalemate.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Wynndar
his powers continually grow with time. He doesnt need upgrades...Iceman has never faced the Torch when he was using excessive temperatures or powers. When he fights someone who is a big threat and or elemental like him ie Graviton, then he really cuts loose....read the fight between him and Graviton, its really good.

True Torch have never had an upgrade, but Bobby's always had the potential. Hes been hearing that since day 1. Problem is he never proved himself of being what his potential is.

I have no doubts torch would fry Bobby, but he just cant get off the k.o. blow as fast as Iceman though.