why do people think that they can just take a trip to Tatooine and free the slaves or buy Shmi?
Like a Jedi who brings peace and justice in the entire galaxy has time for personal affairs... and then we reach again the bottemline:
Jedi shouldn't have personal belongings or attachments in the first place. He simply had to forget his mother, that was the only possible way to become a 'good' Jedi
none of the other youngling padawans brought their mommies with them when they went to Jedi school, and they all turned out okay.
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here's a question:
why didn't Anakin keep in touch with her? i mean... he didn't even know that she had been sold! or freed! or married!
as a FREE woman, she didn't even invite her SON to her WEDDING!!!
what's up with THAT!? the mystery deepens....
None of the other younglings BEGAN their training having already so many attachments in life. You can't compare the two at all. Man, what movie were you watching. The whole reason Anakin's situation is complicated is because he was so old when he began his training.
Don't you find it strange that the entire jedi council knew anakin was going to struggle with his attachment to his mother and did nothing about it? Shit, the council even says, his thoughts dwell on his mother, he's too old to be trained. At what point do the Jedi's decide, hey, this isn't what we would normally do, but in Anakins Special case, we should probably do something about his mother before it effects his training.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Anakin being dragged away from his mother at such a developed stage in life, and her still being a slave is going to be a future problem for the kid. No other jedi ever had to face that reality like Anakin did.
Come on....
Originally posted by Vanquish
The Star Trek Prime derective argument huh, ok... 🙂I still think Slavery is generally considered wrong, and Qui gon as a Jedi should have gone above and beyond his primary mandate and freed her along with Anakin.
It's not the Prime Directive argument at all. It's political. Like I say, he had no right to force official Republican hostilities against the Hutts. Nor could he guarantee the survival of himself or, more importantly, his misison if he took such action.
Like I say, he had no right to take action against the Hutts just because what they do is wrong. If that were possible the Jedi would have done it centuries ago.
That slavery exists at the periphery of the Republic is simply a fact that QGJ had to accept, and he was not in a position to do anything about it. He had to work inside the system.
And the Council eventually accepted QGJ's pleading that Anakin was the Chosen One and so they could not afford to NOT train him, despite the risk. Yoda was overruled by the Council, it seems.
But aren`t Jedi supposed to grow up without their parents? Contact with the outside world is limitted for younglings, so they are not influenced by possible Dark Side temptations from an early age. They are supposed to grow up surrounded by Jedi Teachings, not parental advices - parents are not Jedi Masters, they may have been 'corrupted' by the hardships of life and led on the path to the Dark Side or smth.
Shmi: "Have you cleaned your room?"
Anakin:"Mom! I have to meditate!"
Shmi:"That`s it! You`re grounded! And get a normal haircut!"
I think Qui-Gon didn`t want to take Shmi along for this reason, not that he didn`t figure it out.
Anakin:"Look, mom, I finally got a lightsaber!"
Shmi:"Give me that! I thought I had talked to Yoda about children carrying lethal weapons about!" - storms out of the room -
Anakin is a special case though. No Padawans don't have their parents with them, but that's different. All other padawans are taken at a very young age, before they have developed the capacity to have emotional attachments. Anakin was old enough that the council and Qui gon should have known that the attachment to his mother would pose a serious future problem for him. They should not have trained him like Yoda said, but they did anyway. So if they are going to make the wrong choice to train him, they shouldn't make another mistake and assume the same training they always use will work on him. They should have been more mindful of his training, and paid far more attention to the fact that he was very attached to his mother, and that problem has to be rectified at some point for him to progress. I'm sure in the meditations or conversations with obi wan and Yoda, the topic of his mother did come up in the future. Why they chose to ignore it and treat him like a regular padawan, was their ultimate failure wasen't it.
Also, after seeing padme, anakin says that not a day has gone by in the last 10 years that he didn't think about her. Shouldn't a big fuking red flag go off in obi wans head right there. Woah, wait a minute, the kid seems to still be infatuated with Padme. Maybe I should do something about that now? Nah, fuk it, lets wait till they are married and have kids to do something about it...
More detail on the Obi-Wan/Anakin's mother thing might have been nice. We know that he knew (talking with Anakin about his mother in the lift up to the chambers in AOTC), and we also know that he specifically said to the Council in AOTC that it was getting difficult and dangerous with Anakin and that they should do something, in which he was ignored, again on Chosen One grounds. I think, therefore, it is unfair to see him as totally irresponsible in that respect, but I do agree that we should have seen more of that.
Qui-Gon was, of course, right. As GL puts it, he made a very dangerous decision but he was ultimately right. Part of the tragedy of the SW story is that if QGJ had lived it probably would all have been fine. It was that Obi-Wan, who was not as good a teacher as QGJ or Yoda, was trapped by his final promise to QGJ to do that work that the whole thing started to unravel.
"Qui gon should have known that the attachment to his mother would pose a serious future problem for him"
Again, to be fair on both the film and QGJ, Obi-Wan actively says that to him, and QGJ refutes it in his own style- saying Anakin's future was uncertain, not DEFINITELY dangerous. QGJ was taking a risk and he knew it. As I say, the ultimate tragedy was that he died.
Ya I hear that Ush, I can't dump any of it on Qui Gon. I have no doubt if he lived he would have done something for anakin to resolve some of the attachment issues he has other then just telling him to stop.
I think Obi wans training, although probably very good for most padawans, fell short in anakins case. Obi wan is just too damn good a person to even comprehend anakins issues he was going through. Obi wan doesn't have a single thought against the jedi code, so of course he can't relate to anakins problems. I think if Jedi that didn't follow the code so strictly trained anakin, things may have been different.
And I don't mean to imply that Qui gon is a lesser jedi, but he certainly didn't agree 100% with the strict following of the code. I think he would have been a perfect Master for Anakin.
Like you said, a tragedy that he didn't live to train him. But then again, we wouldn't have movies if he Anakin turned out just fine 🙂
Qui-Gon didn't take Shmi with because he made a bet with Watto and lost. He wagered Anakin's freedom, and tried to win Shmi's also. Watto made a bet to allow her to enter the bet too. Do you remember when they rolled the cube which had some red and some blue on it? That was the betting of whether or not she would be allowed too. Qui-Gon tried all he could.
If you also recall though, Qui Gon used the force to make sure the die landed on freeing Anakin, not his mother. That's hardly the Jedi way, valueing one life over another. If Qui Gon was truly the one who always listens to the will of the force like he claims, he would not have needed to use the force to make it land on Anakin.
As far as i'm concerned, once he made that decision to use the force to falsly make it land on Anakin and not his mother, he should also have committed to doing anything he could to make sure his mother was also freed, even if it meant futher meddling.
If you think about it actually, Qui Gon was the one that sealed her fate to remain a slave, not Watto. Watto is simply following the laws of his planet. Qui Gon was the one who deceived, and broke the laws of the Jedi and everything they should stand for.
You can't use the force to make sure the die DOESN'T land on her, and then just leave her on the planet to rot thinking he did everything he could. That's not cool. If you're going to interfere, then do it 100%, not some half ass'd way like he did.
Originally posted by Vanquish
If you also recall though, Qui Gon used the force to make sure the die landed on freeing Anakin, not his mother. That's hardly the Jedi way, valueing one life over another.
Are you joking? that's UTTERLY what the Jedi were about. Taking children from their parents raising them away from their natural surrondings because of their potential.
Ushgarak has it right. It wasn't Qui Gon's place to do any of these things. Doing so would have actually caused more problems then solutions. And many of the arguments here about how anakin would or wouldn't have turned out are entirely based on hindsight logic that Quigon couldn't have possibly considered at the time. Personally, i always saw the legalization of slavery and the Jedi's complacency on Tatooine as a subtle reminder of how corrupt the Old Republic was and how mired in it the Jedi had become.
Chilled monkey, if Qui Gon had lived, he would have left Shimi where she was and done his best to make sure Anakin would learn to detach himself from her, just like any other Jedi would have and Obi wan did try to do.
If we except Eu (Ghosts of Tatooine ), Qui gon did in fact have a subtle influence on getting Shimi Skywalked freed. And look at where that got her. Killed by sandpeople. If the uppity slave had known her place, she'd be alive.
Vanquish, why the hell would he leave it up to chance? What would he have done with Shimi skywalker? Had sex with her to see if he could make another Anakin?
Or course he had sex with her. Didn't you watch Ep. I? It's obvious from the way those two interact. As for making another Anakin, since Qui-Gon is neither The Force, nor Darth Sidious, that would be impossible.
As for the emotional attachment; there was none. There may have been passion, but Qui-Gon doesn't play by the rules, which gets him killed. But then he kind of cheats that, too.