NJO Luke and Mace Windu VS Exar Kun and Count Dooku

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Darth_Glentract- I dont see anywhere on the page that says "vaapad is good against the darkside".

Emperor Revan-You underestimate kun, he has been said to be the the "embodiment of the darkside" and not only defeated his master vodo but also defeated odan-urr(1000 years old I believe) at ossus, the legendary jedi who made the jedi code. NJO luke is not even in the same league as kun in my opinion. And mace would not defeat dooku, the argument about "mace has learned more over the past 13 years" is useless as it is an opinion, the facts are we know dooku has defeated mace before, the dark side increases ones strength so dooku would be even more powerful and even if vaapad is good against the dark side which I havent seen any proof of, dooku is a master of form II which is good against other lightsaber wielders. Dooku wins his duel and I believe exar beats luke.

Like I said, I rate Kun right below Luke and it doesn't matter how old someone is, they're not necessarily very powerful. Luke beat the reborn clone Emperor and got much stronger since then. He hid an entire planet from view. And Kun being described as the "embodiment of the dark side" is nice but I'm sure people say that about Vader, Maul, and or Sidious too. Revan is said by Kreia to be power, the heart of the Force and NJO Luke can compete with Lord Revan.

And like I said before, Kun is extremely arrogant and lets it cloud his judgement. Luke is far more level headed and would simply win by outsmarting him if need be, IMO.

As for Mace losing to Dooku, that was 13 years ago. Dooku's an old man and even with the Dark Side, his power wouldn't have gone up that much. Surely Mace got stronger during 13 years. Look at the fights. Yoda is clearly beating Dooku, Dooku can't even come close to Yoda's skill really. Sidious (Dooku's master) fights Yoda and they're about equal in lightsaber combat. Mace was able to beat Sidious in lightsaber combat. Mace beat Sidious whom Yoda thought Obi-Wan couldn't beat so Yoda sent Obi after Anakin who had already defeated Dooku and gotten stronger since then.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Like I said, I rate Kun right below Luke and it doesn't matter how old someone is, they're not necessarily very powerful. Luke beat the reborn clone Emperor and got much stronger since then. He hid an entire planet from view. And Kun being described as the "embodiment of the dark side" is nice but I'm sure people say that about Vader, Maul, and or Sidious too. Revan is said by Kreia to be power, the heart of the Force and NJO Luke can compete with Lord Revan.

And like I said before, Kun is extremely arrogant and lets it cloud his judgement. Luke is far more level headed and would simply win by outsmarting him if need be, IMO.

As for Mace losing to Dooku, that was 13 years ago. Dooku's an old man and even with the Dark Side, his power wouldn't have gone up that much. Surely Mace got stronger during 13 years. Look at the fights. Yoda is clearly beating Dooku, Dooku can't even come close to Yoda's skill really. Sidious (Dooku's master) fights Yoda and they're about equal in lightsaber combat. Mace was able to beat Sidious in lightsaber combat. Mace beat Sidious whom Yoda thought Obi-Wan couldn't beat so Yoda sent Obi after Anakin who had already defeated Dooku and gotten stronger since then.

Anakin didnt defeat dooku, the book states he was to let him win this is canon. And the mace beating palpatine is very controversial with me believing palpatine was manipulating him to turn anakin. Besides mace is not stronger than yoda, in dark rendevous mace says this himself. And yoda was about equal to sidious as you said, so mace is definately not as strong as sidious. Anyway dooku and mace would be a very close fight but I still say dooku wins.

Dooku wasn't supposed to win but when Palp told Anakin to use his anger he overpowered Dooku and beat him. The mace fight is controversial but there's no proof that Palp was purposely losing so... And Yoda is about equal with Sidious slightly stronger though, but Mace is close to their power and I think Mace is a better duelist than Sidious so he won. Yoda didn't have as much time to fight as Mace did or he would've killed Sidious.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Dooku wasn't supposed to win but when Palp told Anakin to use his anger he overpowered Dooku and beat him. The mace fight is controversial but there's no proof that Palp was purposely losing so... And Yoda is about equal with Sidious slightly stronger though, but Mace is close to their power and I think Mace is a better duelist than Sidious so he won. Yoda didn't have as much time to fight as Mace did or he would've killed Sidious.

I say sidious is slightly stronger than yoda but there is no evidence of either one being stronger so it isnt arguable. About the dooku fight I dont recall palp saying "use your anger" but either way dooku was supposed to lose, it doesnt make sense that anakin would win anyways being that he lost to obi wan and obi wan was EASILY beaten by dooku twice.

Intrepid, somewhat direct movements are used in combination with very advanced techniques involving Force-powered jumps and motions. Form VII does not appear as fancy as Form IV, but the technical details of it use very open movements resulting in a very unpredictable battle style.

Form VII demands the emotional and physical intensity of Form V, but it much more effectively controls it (if mastered). Form VII, when fully mastered, results in extraordinary power.

However, as Mace Windu remarks in Episode III, Vaapad borders on the edge of falling to the Dark Side, as it channels one's anger and darkness into the attack. Only Windu's mastery and concentration of the Light prevents him from succumbing, which is why Vaapad is rarely practiced and very dangerous.

Mace had mastered it and also created it, so if you think anakin is strong becuase his powers channel through his anger, imagince mace windu, with 20 years of experience. He could definetly take sidious down 1v1 and would waste anakin. Somewhere on another site it said that the angrier a sith or a drak jedi gets(versing mace) the worse it is for them. because mace would use all that anger and channeled powers against them.

read shatterpoint, gives you the insight about mace windu.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Mace had mastered it and also created it, so if you think anakin is strong becuase his powers channel through his anger, imagince mace windu, with 20 years of experience. He could definetly take sidious down 1v1 and would waste anakin. Somewhere on another site it said that the angrier a sith or a drak jedi gets(versing mace) the worse it is for them. because mace would use all that anger and channeled powers against them.

read shatterpoint, gives you the insight about mace windu.

I havent yet read shatterpoint but I plan to based upon all the good things I here about it. About the strong against dark side thing, dookus form is good against other lightsaber wielders therefore both advantages cancel eachother out.

First off...why do people even argue, NJO Luke could be beaten by Exar. NJO Luke is about 50 or 80 % full developed Anakin "Chosen One" Skywalker. He could create black holes with the force, he could destroy entire armies...hell when he fights (with 2 lightsabers) he looks like wielding 20 lightsabers at once. What should Exar do against that sheer power ? And remember that NJO Luke (TUF) is using light side AND dark side powers. Exar Kun is a great lightsaber fighter and realy powerful but in this case he might go down before even knowing what did hit him.

Mace vs Dooku is another thing. It is said that their last fight was in TPM times, a practice match and Mace fought Dooku into a stalemate. That would be 15 years for Mace to develop his Vaapad further while Dooku would only grow older and learn some new dark side powers that Mace could easily block (he could block Sidious force attacks). Mace would win against Dooku.

Even if you do it the other way around. Mace could give Exar a run for his money with a 50 % chance winning. NJO Luke would simply kill Dooku very fast and then help Mace with Exar.

So I'd say the Jedi both will come out of that fight alive.

I heard Dooku defeated Mace in their match. And that gives Dooku time to perfect his already deadly form II style.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
First off...why do people even argue, NJO Luke could be beaten by Exar. NJO Luke is about 50 or 80 % full developed Anakin "Chosen One" Skywalker. He could create black holes with the force, he could destroy entire armies...hell when he fights (with 2 lightsabers) he looks like wielding 20 lightsabers at once. What should Exar do against that sheer power ? And remember that NJO Luke (TUF) is using light side AND dark side powers. Exar Kun is a great lightsaber fighter and realy powerful but in this case he might go down before even knowing what did hit him.

Mace vs Dooku is another thing. It is said that their last fight was in TPM times, a practice match and Mace fought Dooku into a stalemate. That would be 15 years for Mace to develop his Vaapad further while Dooku would only grow older and learn some new dark side powers that Mace could easily block (he could block Sidious force attacks). Mace would win against Dooku.

Even if you do it the other way around. Mace could give Exar a run for his money with a 50 % chance winning. NJO Luke would simply kill Dooku very fast and then help Mace with Exar.

So I'd say the Jedi both will come out of that fight alive.

Well said Nai Fohl. I don't know how well Mace would fight Exar though, Exar's IMO more powerful but also very arrogant, so I suppose he could outsmart him.