Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I'll second that, although I believe ROTS Obi-Wan could put up a much better fight. AOTC Obi needs to really think on his feet or die fast.
Agreed. As for Obi-Wan, he was pretty on par with Anakin in ROTS, I don't think Bandon would have much of a chance against him. Some, but not much.
Plus Wikipedia for what that matters.
Next you sort of have game mechanics if that counts. Revan is usually about 5 levels higher by the time he fights Bastila who doesn't do too bad considering she can freeze Juhani and Jolee in their tracks. Bastila was already considered powerful enough to lead the strike team against Revan. After meeting him and bonding with him, fighting everyone he fights, her power would naturally get much stronger. I think Bastila is seriously underestimated.
Hmm a few things.
Bastila did not lead the strike team to capture Revan, she was there because of her battle meditation masters have said so themselves.
Malak states that Bastila is far more useful and he is right, she has battle meditation and she can slow Revan down more then anybody else can. Wikipedia on opinions means absolutely nothing to me.
By the time she became the apprentice there were still many powerful around including masters something that speaks for her. But I think Malak knew damn well what was going to happen and didn't allow any sort of fighting against Bastila. Of course that is just speculation. But I don't think Bastila is more powerful then Bandon. After Bandon was killed she only had a week or two three of extra training, thats not a lot of contact with the DS.
Of course she would have learned some from Revan, but I don't think it would have been enough.
Bastila DID lead the strike team against Revan, they say it directly in the game.
I believe he says she is more powerful but I'm not sure.
Why not? Bastila put up an ok fight against a level 20 Revan by herself, yet Bandon barely put up an ok fight with two others against a level 15 Revan or something. Next, Bastila froze Juhani and Jolee pretty easily on the Star Forge, something I don't think Bandon could've done.
Next, Bastila didn't have much training, but she had been fighting constantly since Dantooine. It made Revan and the Exile much stronger much faster, and it also did it to their companions so she would've been much more powerful especially given her connection with Revan.
But this is what the official KOTOR 2 site says in the number 10 chronicles.
In disarray, the Jedi Council quickly gathers a small band of Jedi warriors together under the command of Jedi BASTILA SHAN with an imperative and almost suicidal mission; to capture Darth Revan
Now I think you might be right however, in the game I do recall hearing that she was with the strike team, not necessarily leading it. Oh well.
As for your second line, good point but Anakin in ROTS had no training in it either really yet he was pretty powerful. Obviously she could've been stronger but her power was already pretty strong.
Well yeah I have no doubt she could have done a few very basic things but not controlled the Dark Side like a Master she was far from powerful enough for that, afterall you always like to say Bandon did not have enough training with the Dark Side and he had 2.5 years.
Anyways about the strike team what I gathered there comes from the game itself, I don't understand why the Site says something else but I on this thing trust the Jedi masters in game more even though it comes from the same people.
Still I don't think Bastila is as powerful as Bandon just yet, give her some more time and she will be like she is in the holocron in Kotor 2. She could probably defeat Bandon there, but not yet during Kotor. I just don't think she has a chance in hell of doing that.
Also when looking at things realisticly, when you face Bandon you haven't fought as much as when you fight Bastila in game it hardly matters but realisticly speaking the fight against Bastila would be harder, even if it is only by a small margin.
But who cares about that, we are supposed to talk about that in another topic not this one 😛
Ok, let me just say one more thing. Bastila didn't have much training and it would really hurt her but she already had a bunch of dark side powers so she probably had more than we think. Even still she was the second strongest Sith at the time, equal to Bandon's rank.
I really don't think the Dark side would help her much at all, but I don't think she needs it much, due to her training from the Jedi, fighting constantly with Revan, etc. I think Bastila could've beaten Bandon by the time she was captured on the Leviathan.
But yeah, we have strayed off topic so let's get back to it.
Bandon wins..
Seeing as we already discussed and I like this discussion more just ignore my last thing I said about staying on topic....
Bastila was powerful far more powerful then most people give her credit for, but the thing is Bandon is even more underrated IMO the most underrated SW character out there. But thats a thing with most people from Kotor. Everybody underestimates them all except for Revan. Bandon had a quite impressive rank just because he lost from Revan does not mean he is weak. And Bandon is actually second in command becuase of his power and potential. Bastila is second in command because of her battle meditation.
Originally posted by Fishy
Bandon wins..Seeing as we already discussed and I like this discussion more just ignore my last thing I said about staying on topic....
Bastila was powerful far more powerful then most people give her credit for, but the thing is Bandon is even more underrated IMO the most underrated SW character out there. But thats a thing with most people from Kotor. Everybody underestimates them all except for Revan. Bandon had a quite impressive rank just because he lost from Revan does not mean he is weak. And Bandon is actually second in command becuase of his power and potential. Bastila is second in command because of her battle meditation.
You're probably right, I probably do underestimate Bandon but even still, I don't think he could beat Darth Maul for instance or even come close. Bandon has killed many Jedi but so has Atton, HK-47, Jango, and Grievous so it's not necessarily an awesome feat. Next, Bandon has far too little training at least when compared to Maul who was taught by Sidious (I think he's a better teacher at least then Malak) from birth. And last but not least, Bandon has an overinflated view of his power making him act like Anakin in ROTS.
Bastila on the other hand, has basically a week or two at most of dark side training. I don't think that would help her at all. However she does have much more training from the Jedi (ok that wouldn't help much either) and at the start of KOTOR she would be defeated. But remember that she has killed Dark Jedi before and wasn't at all weak even at the start, but like I said, Revan's power grew from a powerful soldier to the strongest being in the galaxy from the start fo finish. Bastila (sharing a bond with Revan) fought along side him just as much as he did up until the Leviathan. By that time Bastila could hold her own even against Darth Malak and Revan could probably have beaten him. (since he wasn't on the Star Forge which fueled his power, and yes I know Revan got paralyzed, but Malak was a pussy and would've easily been slaughtered if you had the chance, not to mention I was a Sentinel and had immunity to paralysis which ticked me off that he still did it. Rant over.)
Bastila is not necessarily second in command just because of her battle meditation, but she is also very powerful. Sure Malak would use her battle meditation but he never says that is the only reason he wants her. And she is FAR stronger than any other Sith with the possible exception of Bandon (I think Bastila's tougher because you have two people with you while she doesn't, you can only get her down to half life, and you're at level 20 whereas you're only about level 15 against Bandon and it's 3 on 3 and you fight him to the death not just to half power.)
Okay but a few things. Bastila has the star forge fueling her with power, Malak says so himself.
Atton, HK and Jango all fought Jedi in different ways then Bandon did. Bandon faced them with a lightsaber those other bastards faced them with other weaposn. GG is the exception to the rule but somebody with a powerful connection to the force would overwelm him.
And yeah she did learn a lot when fighting with Revan a shit load of things, but that hardly makes her all powerful. It makes her a lot better but still.
Also you can say that the training is limited, but neither Dooku nor Malak nor Revan nor Sidious nor Exar Kun or Ulic Qel Droma were trained in the Sith ways from birth. They still all become a force to be careful with. I honestly do not think somebody like Bandon would be completely weak just because of that. And Unlike Maul Bandon has actually faced people in battle before his last battle. Could he beat Maul? I think so yes. Am I sure? No.
One more thing though and this is more against me then against anybody else.
I actually do think that Bandon is not the most powerful in the ranks anymore, he was powerful and probably had a shit load of potential and I think thats the reason why Malak choose him. There were probably a few masters around that would smack him around in a real fight, but they never fought him. At least I think so now, but thats again something that really does not have anything to do with this. Still even if its true Bandon was still insanely powerful otherwise he wouldn't have gotten his rank.
Originally posted by Fishy
Okay but a few things. Bastila has the star forge fueling her with power, Malak says so himself.Atton, HK and Jango all fought Jedi in different ways then Bandon did. Bandon faced them with a lightsaber those other bastards faced them with other weaposn. GG is the exception to the rule but somebody with a powerful connection to the force would overwelm him.
And yeah she did learn a lot when fighting with Revan a shit load of things, but that hardly makes her all powerful. It makes her a lot better but still.
Also you can say that the training is limited, but neither Dooku nor Malak nor Revan nor Sidious nor Exar Kun or Ulic Qel Droma were trained in the Sith ways from birth. They still all become a force to be careful with. I honestly do not think somebody like Bandon would be completely weak just because of that. And Unlike Maul Bandon has actually faced people in battle before his last battle. Could he beat Maul? I think so yes. Am I sure? No.
One more thing though and this is more against me then against anybody else.
I actually do think that Bandon is not the most powerful in the ranks anymore, he was powerful and probably had a shit load of potential and I think thats the reason why Malak choose him. There were probably a few masters around that would smack him around in a real fight, but they never fought him. At least I think so now, but thats again something that really does not have anything to do with this. Still even if its true Bandon was still insanely powerful otherwise he wouldn't have gotten his rank.
I was talking about when Bastila fought on the Unknown World. I agree that the Star Forge was probably the reason she could freeze Jolee and Juhani like that.
True, but Bastila has probably killed more dark Jedi and Sith apprentices than Bandon has Jedi.
I never said all powerful, just quite a bit stronger than when she was with the team against Revan.
No, none of them were trained in the Sith ways from birth and I honestly think it's weaker because you don't know both sides of the Force. But I'm saying Bandon doesn't have enough training yet. And Maul killed a Jedi master and his padawan (master was on the council I think or close, and padawan was nearly a knight like Obi was). No he didn't fight them at the same time but he still killed both of them and then later Qui-Gon.
I completely agree on your last paragraph.
1.) Ohh okay...
2.) I doubt it, Bastila her kill count is almost completely related to Revan his kill count from the start of Kotor. Yeah she could have killed a few in combat but a lot of them were heavily weakened by Revan.
3.) Okay, guess we agree then
4.) Yeah you are right Bandon did not have enough yet but still a lot more then Bastila, he had a quarter of what Dooku had you can learn quite a bit in that time.
4.) Sweet, I don't know it its true however some things pseak for it some against it.