Odin vs Savage Hulk...with a twist.

"And Odin can allegedly "instantly" amp his strength to phenomenal levels. So can Hulk, and his continues to increase exponentially/geometrically"

Thing is if they both chose to increase Odin will surpass Hulk by far.

"Oh, you say otherwise? How long did it take him to increase in strength to support 150 billion tons? Precisely."

Hulk supported for some time a mountain. At best a portion of a mountain range. Hercules has dragged islands alone like Manhattan . Thor has lifted off earth a being bigger than Earth. Glads and Drax have destroyed planets with theyr fists. Pardon me for not taking that comparation of a mountain to the rest serious.

For you to get an idea a being who had his Odins powers (something like his dark side) was destroying galaxies. Yeah i better not take it serious.

"So it is a h2h battle and Odin automatically wins? On what account"

On the account that h2h hes gone toe to toe and defeated beings far powerful than Hulk. Here are two examples : Classic Mangog and Surtur.

Originally posted by olympian
Since ever. His wins against Hulk and stalemates against Immortal Hercules show it.

Shows nothing. Thing defeated Hulk. He is nowhere near Class 100. Namor is Thing's strength level IN water. Namor was NEVER near Class 100 even when they first created TOHOTMU in 1985. I know, I had them.

I dont go with them because writers of the comics dont follow them. Each hero have better showings in comics than the handbok tells you. Every single one.

Garbage. Writers are afforded a modicum of creative liberty but generally adhere to a character's longstanding ability listing, period. You'll never see Wolverine running at the speed of sound or Superman with telekinesis unless they are retconned. Writers are also allowed to expand on a character's ability (for example, Hulk's strength being affected by anger AND adrenaline; in addition, his healing factor increasing in efficacy with his adrenaline surges). The handbooks are a general guide, not a final and authoritative interpretation.

By handbooks not comics. And that works for both.

So you say.

Zeus did it.

So Zeus.

Do some research first. The Hercules Hulk beat in the one shot was hercules as mortal/depowered ( yeah its cannon ) and had half of his powers stripped. He basically wasent at Hulks level in anything except superior figthing skills.

I said he beat him within an inch of his life. He DID. No research necessary.

Hulk never beat regular immortal Hercules in any of theyr 5 fights ( the sixth being that one shot ).

They never got a chance to fight. Hercules ran away in #316, for example.

And Thor wasent down or knocked out.

He was down. He got up. Would you prefer I reference the Hulk 2001 Annual where it said "Abruptly its over. Thor, it seems, has been beaten beyond reason. Whether he is alive or dead...the Hulk doesn't care."

Does that count as being knocked out? I daresay it does.

So...why does Odin walk over Hulk again?

Thing is if they both chose to increase Odin will surpass Hulk by far.

Prove it. What part of "virtually limitless" do you not understand?

Can I just give Never a Big up for writing some of the most interesting and insightful stuff i have read in ages. Can I also give you some respect for a Thread you put together more than a year ago that put Marvel and D.C.'s strongest characters in an accurate League. It was this thread that started my obssesion with comic strength Levels. So cheers mate

"Handbooks are as accurate as the author makes them. Some are inconsisent, incongruous"

Do you believe that Marvel over the last 10 years have shown a far greater loyalty to their class system than they ever did before? It has been along time since any Marvel character performed a truely impressive feat, and I believed that this have been down to the Class system. Is it pulling far more weight (no pun intended) with artistic styles than it did during the 70's and 80's ?

"Just one thing. comics can lead to a misdiscretion and arent always writtn for guys like us.

What do you mean by this ?

They are written for the majority (who don't know better), thus bs feats occur."

What do you mean by this aswell ?

"Garbage. Writers are afforded a modicum of creative liberty but generally adhere to a character's longstanding ability listing, period. You'll never see Wolverine running at the speed of sound or Superman with telekinesis unless they are retconned. Writers are also allowed to expand on a character's ability (for example, Hulk's strength being affected by anger AND adrenaline; in addition, his healing factor increasing in efficacy with his adrenaline surges). The handbooks are a general guide, not a final and authoritative interpretation."

To true, I couldn't have said it better !!!!!!!!!!!

💃 💃

A "big up?" How appropriate considering my place of birth 😉 (Jamaica, Jamaica)

Do you believe that Marvel over the last 10 years have shown a far greater loyalty to their class system than they ever did before? It has been along time since any Marvel character performed a truely impressive feat, and I believed that this have been down to the Class system. Is it pulling far more weight (no pun intended) with artistic styles than it did during the 70's and 80's ?

I'll hazard a guess a say that the influx of talented writers has a bit to do with it. Storylines are no longer necessarily driven by incredible feats of strength/magic; the Grant Morrisons have upped the ante with runaway train-esque story arcs; Mark Waid has done wonders with character development and team dynamics...creative interpretation of character abilities has replaced the boorish, "biff" "zap" "pow" fights. Anyone remember what The Engineer did in The Authority? Terraforming entire African veldts? Creating a molecular sized, razor sharp net to catch and destroy those incoming clones? You just did not see that kind of writing 20, 30 years ago.

Was it a conscious effort on Marvel's behalf...? Difficult to say, but yes, I'll agree that they are pulling more weight with artistic styles.

Will also like to revisit the "if x character beat y character then they are in the same strength class" argument. Come on. Doc Samson beat The Hulk. Is he necessarily Class 100? No. Recall the infamous Spiderman vs. Firelord fight? There are faaar too many variables involved for one to conclude that, because a character survived/stalemated another, they are in the same class strength-wise. Hulk will NEVER defeat everyone. Does Superman defeat everyone? No. Shaggy Man stalemated Superman. Writers need to tell a STORY. If that story entails Thing one-upping The Hulk, then Thing will defeat The Hulk but we ALL know that, in 10 fights, Hulk SHOULD logically stomp Thing at least 7/10.

For the record, yeah I think Odin with his nigh bottomless well of experience should defeat Hulk (Thanos went toe-to-toe with Odin sans Hulk's limitless strength and healing factor). I am always seeing whether or not one can construct a cogent argument supporting their reason.

Always have been, just never said so before.

Everyone around here's black, cooooool.

"I'll hazard a guess a say that the influx of talented writers has a bit to do with it. Story lines are no longer necessarily driven by incredible feats of strength/magic; the Grant Morrison's have upped the ante with runaway train-esque story arcs; Mark Waid has done wonders with character development and team dynamics...creative interpretation of character abilities has replaced the boorish, "biff" "zap" "pow" fights. Anyone remember what The Engineer did in The Authority? Terra forming entire African veldts? Creating a molecular sized, razor sharp net to catch and destroy those incoming clones? You just did not see that kind of writing 20, 30 years ago.

Was it a conscious effort on Marvell's behalf...? Difficult to say, but yes, I'll agree that they are pulling more weight with artistic styles."

I totally agree that with what you rae saying. As you said, far more attention has been spent on character expansion and creating a more realistic Representation. This process has not only enforced better story telling it has prevented the development of what is known as power Inflation. (E.G. what happened to Pre Crisis Superman)

I have been reading comics for a relatively short period, therefore i cannot accurately say whether or not this has happened for the best. What attracted me to comics in the first place was the reality escape they provided. I liked the concept; that super heroes could go far beyond the limits set by science on normal humans. I believe, by enforcing limits upon character powers they are having a negative effect on foundational notion behind super powers.

As i said before on another thread, Super strength in Marvel is no longer that 'Super'

As to this point :
"Will also like to revisit the "if x character beat y character then they are in the same strength class" argument. Come on. Doc Samson beat The Hulk. Is he necessarily Class 100? No. Recall the infamous Spiderman vs. Firelord fight? There are Far too many variables involved for one to conclude that, because a character survived/stalemated another, they are in the same class strength's. Hulk will NEVER defeat everyone. Does Superman defeat everyone? No. Shaggy Man stalemated Superman. Writers need to tell a STORY. If that story entails Thing one-upping The Hulk, then Thing will defeat The Hulk but we ALL know that, in 10 fights, Hulk SHOULD logically stomp Thing at least 7/10."

I cannot agree more. This argument is applied to far to Manny characters in this forum.

"Shows nothing. Thing defeated Hulk. He is nowhere near Class 100. Namor is Thing's strength level IN water. Namor was NEVER near Class 100 even when they first created TOHOTMU in 1985. I know, I had them."

Pinnaple Thing- amped. vs a Grey Hulk who was weaker. That shows alot. Namor has always been portraited as class 100 as soon Marvel started to write theyr top level heroes in that range. Handbooks dont spell comics. A guy who has stalemates against immortal Herc and Hulk evenly in land and beats them in water is not lower than that class.

"Garbage. Writers are afforded a modicum of creative liberty but generally adhere to a character's longstanding ability listing, period. You'll never see Wolverine running at the speed of sound or Superman with telekinesis unless they are retconned"

A character longstanding ability like he was always portaited in comics. I see you got my point. Good. What im saying is that handbooks are outdated and nothing else. What are you exactly replying back? That im right? And again Heroes do stuff in comics that by handbooks its wrong. Like saying Hulk cant take nuclear explosions. How many he did so far? 3?

"So you say."

Yes i do. Read any comics with both and youll know.

"I said he beat him within an inch of his life. He DID. No research necessary"

And its right. It doesnt bear any argument to compare both of them tho. Herc was depowered. It doesnt spell superiority if you beat someone depowered while your not. However if that works for you, i guess the Ko Hercules gave to the Hulk in the end of the mindless Hulk/Avengers fight, when Hulk was weaker its clean here. 1=1.

"They never got a chance to fight. Hercules ran away in #316, for example"

For two guys who had the total of 6 fights counting that one shot, they sure seem that never had the chance. Hercules alone was stalemating that Hulk.

As a research note: Hulk ran in theyr first fight. In the same conditions: a stalemate.

"He was down. He got up. Would you prefer I reference the Hulk 2001 Annual where it said "Abruptly its over. Thor, it seems, has been beaten beyond reason. Whether he is alive or dead...the Hulk doesn't care."

The same anual that had Thor getting up and still ready to fight? Be my guest.

"So...why does Odin walk over Hulk again?"

Alot more powerful, more experienced. Stronger. Better durability. Better amping. Fought stronger and more powerful beings than Hulk h2h...want more?

"Prove it. What part of "virtually limitless" do you not understand"

Until comics show Hulk surpassing strenght by strenght: Celestials, Galactus, Skyfathers etc. I want it showed and not only the pun. You already had Hulk during Pad first run admiting in relation against one foe ( maybe from the Hela storyline ) that he could get weeks with rage increase and wouldnt still match foes like that.
I want Hulk and a skyfather side by side and he doing something a Skyfather cant. Its simple.

Want it more easy? He can increase all he wants that Odin increases even more.

Originally posted by olympian

Pinnaple Thing- amped. vs a Grey Hulk who was weaker. That shows alot. Namor has always been portraited as class 100 as soon Marvel started to write theyr top level heroes in that range. Handbooks dont spell comics. A guy who has stalemates against immortal Herc and Hulk evenly in land and beats them in water is not lower than that class.

Could not care less about his stalemates. Were they battles of strength or FIGHTS? Fights. Sooooo because Doc Samson (since you avoided it the first time) knocked out Hulk in a fight he's in the same weight class, by that warped logic? Because Spiderman knocked out Firelord he's in the same weight class, by that warped logic? Nope. Namor has not always been Class 100 strength. Period.

A character longstanding ability like he was always portaited in comics. I see you got my point. Good. What im saying is that handbooks are outdated and nothing else. What are you exactly replying back? That im right? And again Heroes do stuff in comics that by handbooks its wrong. Like saying Hulk cant take nuclear explosions. How many he did so far? 3?

Show me any handbook/internet compendium that details precisely each and every instance that a character can survive/overcome. Did HIV even EXIST when Hulk was given a healing factor? Um, NO. So that means that handbook is wrong when a writer/editor decides to expand on a character's abilities? LoL, that's laughable.

Yes i do. Read any comics with both and youll know.

I've read Thor since Simonson started. I do know. Zeus is slightly more powerful than Odin. I'll agree to disagree.

And its right. It doesnt bear any argument to compare both of them tho. Herc was depowered. It doesnt spell superiority if you beat someone depowered while your not. However if that works for you, i guess the Ko Hercules gave to the Hulk in the end of the mindless Hulk/Avengers fight, when Hulk was weaker its clean here. 1=1.

I know it is right. Hulk is more powerful, period.

For two guys who had the total of 6 fights counting that one shot, they sure seem that never had the chance. Hercules alone was stalemating that Hulk.

What is your point? Thor has encountered Hulk numerous times. Did each result in a conclusive victory/defeat for either? Nope.

The same anual that had Thor getting up and still ready to fight? Be my guest.

Still ready to fight after being knocked out? LoL

Alot more powerful, more experienced. Stronger. Better durability. Better amping. Fought stronger and more powerful beings than Hulk h2h...want more?

More what, opinions? He's stripped of magic. "Better amping?" LMAO can't get much better than "the madder he gets, the stronger he gets."

Until comics show Hulk surpassing strenght by strenght: Celestials, Galactus, Skyfathers etc. I want it showed and not only the pun. You already had Hulk during Pad first run admiting in relation against one foe ( maybe from the Hela storyline ) that he could get weeks with rage increase and wouldnt still match foes like that.

Now one writer's interpretation of Hulk's ability is canon, right? Just like Spiderman "admitted" that his reflexes are 45x that of a human's? How convenient for your argument. Sorry, Celestials, Galactus, etc do not have limitless strength potential.

I want Hulk and a skyfather side by side and he doing something a Skyfather cant. Its simple.

Then become a Marvel writer and write the story arc. Hell, I want a Dodge Viper. Doesn't mean I'll get one.

" Nope. Namor has not always been Class 100 strength. Period."

Samson who was being trashed in that fight and only manage the Ko because of a sucker shot? The same Samson who broke his hand by doing it? That spells not having the same strenght range for me. Just the enought to made it.
Namor on the other hand since the Lee and Kirby days has been consitantly showed to fight evenly against Hulk and co. Not " just making it " but evenly. Thats the difference.

"Show me any handbook/internet compendium that details precisely each and every instance that a character can survive/overcome. Did HIV even EXIST when Hulk was given a healing factor? Um, NO. So that means that handbook is wrong when a writer/editor decides to expand on a character's abilities? LoL, that's laughable."

Its a rusty source. And when pll use it like your stance on Namor it - is - laughable just because the handbook says hes lower. Outdated means exactly that my good sir. The moment characters consistantly do thing that handbooks dont consider right, its of no use anymore. Comics are what counts. And that is counting the fact Namor was always written in the big leagues.

"I've read Thor since Simonson started. I do know. Zeus is slightly more powerful than Odin. I'll agree to disagree."

Each opinion is valid. Odin just has more feats because hes the top myth God at Marvel. I rather see them about the same wich each one bringing something to the table. Wich is how they refer to each other.

"I know it is right. Hulk is more powerful, period. "

More powerful than a Hercules version whos not top level. I agree. But then again so is Hercules more powerful than Grey Hulk.

"What is your point? Thor has encountered Hulk numerous times. Did each result in a conclusive victory/defeat for either? Nope"

No. Hulk/Thor fights the same way as Herc/Thor and Hulk/Thor and lets even use the Juggernaut/Hulk always end up in stalemates. Theres no clean victories of none. They all play in the same ballpark. read that is said - clean - victories. Non clean some have it.

"Still ready to fight after being knocked out? LoL"

He was up after that scene where hes down. lol indeed. Down btw not out.

"More what, opinions? He's stripped of magic. "Better amping?" LMAO can't get much better than "the madder he gets, the stronger he gets."

Yes. Opinions that wer all showed up in comics. Didnt you claimed to read Thor? Read it. He can amp here. Read also the theard starter. And Hulk dinamic strengh against Odin who starts already on a higher level?
Ha Ha.

"Now one writer's interpretation of Hulk's ability is canon, right? Sorry, Celestials, Galactus, etc do not have limitless strength potential."

Prove it. Ill give you a hint. Odin was stated during some fights ( ill let you find out wich, since you said you read it. ) that he could amped all he wanted. Writers often say alot but they dont write it. Like WW being second - only - to Superman. Its hypes and puns all together but not show. Such is also Hulk limitess strenght. Next i know youll be telling me he can amp beyond living tribunal. Go ahead, lets laught.

"Then become a Marvel writer and write the story arc. Hell, I want a Dodge Viper. Doesn't mean I'll get one."

Buy one. You sure will get it first in life then reading the later happening.

Hulk is not more powerful than ODin

Hes not Surfer or even Thanos level, and people already want him beating on Skyfathers. 😖hifty:

I was relying on the fact Odin has said himself to be able to amp his strength to any level he so desired.

Hulk is not the only creature in the MU who has the claim of limitless strength.

Cosmic beings like Skyfather and above do it if they want it.

Odin fight with Seth shows it. Against Surtur also.

Savage Hulk so far hasent even equaled a non amped Zeus beating the Avengers powerhouses at the same time. Hes yet to beat Hercules, or Thor or Namor. And i mean actually defeating them not just holding its own.

Originally posted by long pig
I was relying on the fact Odin has said himself to be able to amp his strength to any level he so desired.

Hulk is not the only creature in the MU who has the claim of limitless strength.

I cried in tears reading that, I'm so glad to hear that HULK IS NOT THE ONLY UNLIMITED GUY !!!! Yeahh long pig you RULE !!! 💃 💃 💃

Of course he isent. He never showed to have such limitess he would surpass anyone in just strenght.

What he does get its above the high class 100. -When- he gets like that.

Let's not downplay Hulk though, he is indeed the strongest on Earth by far, but not the strongest in the Universe as implied by some.

Im not saying hes downplaying Hulk. Hulk potentially can surpass Thor and Hercules. But so far it happened in feats. Wich is valid. Theyr all equals and is when Hulk gets uber pissed that he gets above them.

Originally posted by olympian
Im not saying hes downplaying Hulk. Hulk potentially can surpass Thor and Hercules. But so far it happened in feats. Wich is valid. Theyr all equals and is when Hulk gets uber pissed that he gets above them.

Hulk can exceed Celestial level strength. (he did it twice)

Without the Odinpower, this wouldn't be an easy fight for Odin. He's just like Thor, (possibly weaker) and he's a much better fighter. The Odinpower is what makes Odin a Skyfather. Without it, Odin could be defeated in this battle.