Seraph Sephiroth vs. Trance Kuja

No, Dissidia is canon, hence why the creators have all called it canon and it's Ultimania treats it as canon. Stop ignoring the facts, which I'll post here once again for your entertainment:

the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Firion speaks of comrades he'd lost before, meaning he's the same Firion from FF II.

-Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No, Dissidia is canon, hence why the creators have all called it canon and it's Ultimania treats it as canon. Stop ignoring the facts, which I'll post here once again for your entertainment:

the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Firion speaks of comrades he'd lost before, meaning he's the same Firion from FF II.

-Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

First off, I'm not ignoring any of your facts, I'm reading them with respect and attention. I said I WANT Dissidia to be canon, don't take my words as I would want to argue with you or contradict you, but when something's not convincing enough, there's nothing to do. You claim so many suppositions in your argument, at least I want to know from where you have learned about the Dissidia Ultimania, about the creators stating that Dissidia IS canon, etcetera, from where you have read that? I would like to know what official source you have checked for this conclusion in your words, send me the link through private if you wish, no problem.

Ok, basically you said that each character is the authentic from each Final Fantasy game because in some parts of Dissidia they states things from the original games, like the Squall's promise, Cloud speaking about Zack or Sephiroth. Let's analyze Cloud.

Like I said before, Cloud is also introduced in Final Fantasy Tactics, these are his words when he appears:

-"I remember being swallowed by a current, a great stream, and then..."

You clearly see in the game that the machine that transported Cloud is a device for teleportation across dimensions meaning that Cloud was from another dimension, across the very fabric of time and space, in other words, he was transported from another world, Final Fantasy VII.

He says:

-"That's right. I was...I was a member of SOLDIER."

Then... He speaks about Sephiroth.

-"Uh... What is this...this feeling in my fingertips?"
-"The heat! Inside my skull... No, stop... Sephiroth!"

All of this means that he's the Cloud from Final Fantasy VII.

In conclusion... If you claim that Dissidia is canon then I could say Final Fantasy Tactics is directly related to Final Fantasy VII which means is also canon.

I ask now... Final Fantasy Tactics is canon?

Dissidia can't be canon; Terra lost her esper form when Kefka died.

Cosmos restored her power, just as Chaos brought Kefka to life. Dissidia has been directly called a genuine entry in the series by it's director, and every scrap of evidence backs this up.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Cosmos restored her power, just as Chaos brought Kefka to life. Dissidia has been directly called a genuine entry in the series by it's director, and every scrap of evidence backs this up.

If that's true, Squall > Cloud. Also Exdeath can use TK. He can officially do everything Ganondorf can do.

Exdeath would make Ganon his *****. The guy can literally erase the fabric of reality.

Then Chaos brought every Final Fantasy antagonist to life. Those aren't assumptions...? Where is the exact quote from its director...? An Official source...? Or you have read it on Wikipedia? Why keep claiming things that doesn't have (as I can see) any backing? Because bringing some of the character's quotes from the game means nothing since I brought Cloud's quotes from Final Fantasy Tactics which proves my point. If Dissidia is considered canon, I could consider Final Fantasy Tactics canon and directly related to Final Fantasy VII's storyline which I REALLY doubt.

I've searched on Google, and believe me, I couldn't find anything of what you speak of. I just found some forums that are debating the same thing without any backing. "Yeah, the director said this and said that". Many people claimed it and yet I haven't seen any proof of it, where the hell is that "Dissidia Ultimania" by the way...?

The Dissidia Ultimania is a book, the creator quotes are coming from there and interviews about Dissidia.

You're just making yourself look bad trying to argue here, the fact of the matter is that Dissidia is just as canon as any of the numbered installments.

To finally settle this I'll take away your only argument, the FF Tactics thing. FF Tactics is not a numbered title, it is a spin off from the main series like Crystal Chronicles which is why it has no representation in Dissidia. Dissidia, on the other hand, is called a genuine entry in the series, Yoshinore Kitase, Producer of the game, makes this even more clear when he said in an interview:

"Making it a “Gaiden”(side story or spin-off) made the game feel too distant, and we wanted to set the right tone for DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY; it isn’t a numbered title, but has just as much spirit as a main story."

Yet another quote from it's creators proving it canon. It's more canon than Tactics given that it's not considered a pin off, but rather a part of the main series.

Whoa! What happedned to happy talk about Kuja beating the crap out of Sephiroth? I always thought of dissidia as the Final Fantasy Super Smash Bros. There are references to the characters original games lying about. However since Dissidia technically never happened due to the heroes on Cosmos' side defeating Chaos and returning the world back to the way it was prior to the war, it can be enjoyed as just a neat and kickass crossover with some canon.

So I see Dissidia as both canon and not canon. Canon because it keeps the original Final Fantasy storylines of all the characters while having them fight a universal threat. It can also be non-canon because if everyone returned back to their own world like nothing happened, then the characters could just all wake up in their respective storylines with a shared dream-like experience and progress through their game accordingly. If anything the characters could all just appear at an inn that they stayed at before they were drafted by the gods.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
The Dissidia Ultimania is a book, the creator quotes are coming from there and interviews about Dissidia.

You're just making yourself look bad trying to argue here, the fact of the matter is that Dissidia is just as canon as any of the numbered installments.

To finally settle this I'll take away your only argument, the FF Tactics thing. FF Tactics is not a numbered title, it is a spin off from the main series like Crystal Chronicles which is why it has no representation in Dissidia. Dissidia, on the other hand, is called a genuine entry in the series, Yoshinore Kitase, Producer of the game, makes this even more clear when he said in an interview:

"Making it a “Gaiden”(side story or spin-off) made the game feel too distant, and we wanted to set the right tone for DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY; it isn’t a numbered title, but has just as much spirit as a main story."

Yet another quote from it's creators proving it canon. It's more canon than Tactics given that it's not considered a pin off, but rather a part of the main series.

I'm making myself look bad just because I ask for proof...? I didn't know that, anyway.

That's not my only argument, the only SOLID argument you have are the charcater's quotes from Dissidia, nothing more, even if you put the Dissida Ultimania cover which can be found on Google to make yourself look good, doesn't mean anything, that's not evidence. If you claim things, you have to provide evidence, I'm afraid.

What if Final Fantasy Tactics is not a numbered title? Who cares if Tactics has no representations in Dissidia? That's totally irrelevant. Dissidia is a numbered title, that's what you're trying to say? What have Crystal Chronicles to do in this? I'm taking a game where you can find the same thing you claimed in your previous post, a represented character from another title, just like Dissidia. The Cloud from Tactics seems to be the same Cloud from Final Fantasy VII, as far as your logic goes:

"Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade."

If Tactics Cloud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know about SOLDIER and Sephiroth and certainly wouldn't talk about a stream (meaning the Lifestream if you haven't pay attention).

Your argument is literally lacking proof, you keep bringing quotes from directors with any backing. I could say whatever I like too. Look, Dissidia represents each character and their respective stories, but that doesn't mean they are all canon and directly related to every Final Fantasy series, you are wrong. Dissidia isn't canon. You wouldn't say Dead Fantasy is also canon because I would laugh at you, no offense.

Good lord you're either incapable of comprehension or just the most stubborn person on Earth. Let me make this very simple for you:

THE GAMES DIRECTOR, PRODUCER, AND OFFICIAL MATERIALS BOOK CALL IT CANON.

The creators of the game are right, and you're wrong. It's just that simple, they have the final word and your opinion is invalid if you disagree.

Dissidia is canon.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Good lord you're either incapable of comprehension or just the most stubborn person on Earth. Let me make this very simple for you:

THE GAMES DIRECTOR, PRODUCER, AND OFFICIAL MATERIALS BOOK CALL IT CANON.

The creators of the game are right, and you're wrong. It's just that simple, they have the final word and your opinion is invalid if you disagree.

Dissidia IS canon?! Awesome, you made my day.
Sadly, you lack proof on what you're saying on this post.

No, I've given you multiple examples from the game, statements from the Ultimania, and word of god statements from both the director and producer. You, on the other hand, have no evidence that even suggests it isn't canon. Sorry bro. 🙁

Let me make it simple for you...

The only solid evidence you have are the characters quotes from Dissidia, that's totally refuted since I brought official quotes from Final Fantasy Tactics stating that the Cloud that appears is the same Cloud as far as your logic goes. You have nothing but quotes from directors which you can't back up.

You surely copied and pasted those quotes from the producers, what I'm begging for the last time, is that I want to know the official source you've checked, if you paste these quotes, you clearly have read something, if I paste those Cloud's quotes from Final Fantasy Tactics, that means I've read them from the game itself. Ok, you said it's from the Ultimania, then, from where you got that book? You brought it? You have dowloaded it? Do you understand Japanese language? That's what I want to know, back what you're saying. If the director have stated that Dissidia Final Fantasy IS canon, then show me the proof, don't just paste quotes, keep in mind that not ALL we're going to believe your words since there are a lot of people which thinks Dissidia isn't canon and they will keep believing it. In my case I want Dissidia to be canon, but I need proof, I don't want to believe in something that could be a false conjecture. Do you understand, mate?

You have proof, you just won't accept it. You also have no evidence suggesting Dissidia being non-canon. It wouldn't matter if I had Nomura, Kitase, and Arakawa visit you at your home and tell you in person that it's canon because you've already shown that you think you know more than them.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No, Dissidia is canon, hence why the creators have all called it canon and it's Ultimania treats it as canon. Stop ignoring the facts, which I'll post here once again for your entertainment:

the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Firion speaks of comrades he'd lost before, meaning he's the same Firion from FF II.

-Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

I cant agree with this.
If this is canon because of the reasons you posted, then Smash Bros is canon for a reason as simple as the fact that Link/Mario recognizes Zelda/Peach and wants to protect her.
It sounds ludicrous, doesn't it?

Is Soul Calibur 4's inclusion of the Star Wars characters make their story canon as well? I mean, it can certainly can fit (Yoda's ending).
But, that doesn't make it canon.

Books, developer quotes, etc. aren't good enough. It needs to be in a game.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
You have proof, you just won't accept it. You also have no evidence suggesting Dissidia being non-canon. It wouldn't matter if I had Nomura, Kitase, and Arakawa visit you at your home and tell you in person that it's canon because you've already shown that you think you know more than them.

You can't show me anything... Right? That's the problem... Too bad, well I think I'll begin believing in something that could be false, that's fine by me.

You say: "You also have no evidence suggesting Dissidia being non-canon."
That means you accept you don't have evidence either. I just have refuted your Dissidia characters quotes, that's all. But if you are the one claiming that Dissidia IS canon, you must be the one providing factual evidence, not me. I wish Nomura came to my house, no doubts about it. You paste quotes, yet you don't provide the source, too bad for you...

Books, developer quotes, etc. aren't good enough. It needs to be in a game.

That's quite simply the dumbest thing I've ever heard, the creators are the GODS of the games universe. Whatever they say goes, if they said that Squall was really a lesbian women trying to prove she was a tough as a man by pretending to be one that would be canon. If they said Cloud was two midgets inside of a robot they'd be correct.

You can't show me anything...

Can you not read, I've shown you creator quotes, but if you want to be a petty fool here's the source, Kitase's blog on 1up:

Here's the entry where Arakawa says it's a genuine entry in the series:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9001302&publicUserId=6049935

Here's the entry where Kitase says it's not a spin off, but a main entry:

http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=6049935

You don't make sense anymore.... Look at LLLLLink's post, does that makes sense to you?