Master Sifo-Dyas- a bit of a mystery (SPOILERS)

Could it be as simple as this...

Master Sifo-Dyas is Darth Maul? It is a long shot, but it makes sense.

- Obi-wan and Qui-gon are the only Jedi that ever saw Darth Maul. They may never have seen what Sifo-Dyas looked like to begin with. I'm sure not all Jedi know each other.

- Darth Maul and Sifo-Dyas died about the same time. Both died about 10 years before AotC.

- Darth Maul was the apprentice of Sidious (Palpytine). When would Palpytine have time to train an apprentice from a young age? He is a polician from Naboo. Where would have have hidden this apprentice for so many years while he trained him? Makes sense that Darth Maul was a Jedi first and then turned to the dark side.

- The look Yoda and Mace gave eath other when Obi-wan asked about the death of Sifo-Dyas and when he died makes me think they knew something that Obi-wan did not. Could it be that Sifo-Dyas turned to the dark side?

Just ideas that were floating around in my head. 😕

Absolutely no chance whatsoever. Sifo-Dyas is NOT a man of mystery! He is a person who was well known! Obi-Wan, Yoda and Windu all knew him and I think they would have noticed if he was Maul!

Plus he was a jedi, not Darth Maul.

I would have to disagree with you Ushgarak on this one. Obi-wan didn't know him, he only new OF him (Obi-wan didn't even know if he had died for sure - - "Didn't he die almost 10 years ago?"😉, and no where did it say in the movie that he was well known. As for Yoda and Windu knowing him, that is what I was getting at. They gave each other a look when Obi-wan was asking about him. A look like that knew more about him than was commonly known.

Just playing devil's advocate here. =)

Ok, so you are saying that this person was a senior Jedi- maybe even a Council Member- and no-one noticed the fact that he was Darth Maul. You are saying that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had never seen this Jedi and nor had any other members of the Jedi Council to whom Maul was described. I guess all records of this man must have been retro-actively faked as well and that no-one has noticed this. You are also saying that it was Maul who placed the order for the Clones yet Dooku who sent the template. You are also saying that Maul was once a Jedi; if he had been then he would have been identified after Qui-Gon fought him and after his death.

Devil's Advocate or otherwise, this idea is not in the slightest bit credible.

No, no , no...

I'm not saying that no one knew who he was. I'm saying that Qui-gon and Obi-wan didn't know who he was. There are pleanty of Jedi-Masters that are not on the council. Lets not make assumptions. We do not know if he was poplular, we do no know that he was on the Council (but i'm sure if he was that would have been mentioned). We really don't know anything about his guy accept that he was a Jedi-Master. For all we know he lived on a far off system and really never visited Courasaunt (sp?). We know nothing about him. This is why theories of him can pretty out there. hehe.

As for the Jedi Council knowing him, they probably did. That is why I keep bringing up that Yoda and Mace knew more than they were letting out. Maybe the council kept hit quiet. After all Yoda told Mace to keep it quiet that the Jedi Council was not in tune with the force as they used to. He told him not to tell the Senate. Why not keep this a secret between Council members too?

The Kaminoans describe him as a Council Member and Obi-Wan does not contradict this. And you have still not addressd the total impossibility of Maul ever having been a Jedi.

For your theory to even vaguely work involves a lot of extended thought and unnecessary plot complication. I cannot even begin to rate it as the slightest amount credible and I doubt anyone else will as well!

Well, first of all Sypo-Dyas could have claimed to be on the council to place the order. The Kaminoans would never have accepted the order if the Jedi was not on the council. When they told Obi-wan that he gave an odd look, like "He was?" Then he just played along.

Second of all why couldn't Darth Maul started out as a Jedi? If the council knew him, in this theory, they kept the truth secret. If we look at the history of Sith durring that time, 2 out of the 4 we know came from Jedi: Dooku and Vader. No one even knew Dooku the second Sith Lord until it was too late.

As for you keep bashing my idea I think you need to grab a hold of a better imagination for god's sake. It is an imaginary world made from a few movies and books. This theory would hold up as a THEORY. From what is revealed in the movies there IS evidence to back it up, as their is evidence that says otherwise. That is what makes it a theory. LOL.

My imagination is absolutely fine. That doesn't mean I will accept any old crackpot idea like this one. I'm sorry you are upset I don;t like yor idea but that is because it is anot a very good one. I see absolutely no good evidence to support it and a ton of stuff that contradicts it.

Obi-Wan does NOT give a look which contradicts Sifo-Dyas not being a Council Member, and I am sure he would have said if he was not. His look was that the Kaminoans did not know he was dead.

Maul could not have been a Jedi because it would have been impossible to keep that covered up. Qui-Gon speficially says that he could only conclude that the person he fought was a Sith. This is something he would only say if the possibility that it was a Jedi had been COMPLETELY ruled out. Besides which there is absolutely no credible reason whatsoever for this to have been covered up. NONE. Nothing, from the Council's point of view, was even happening at this time.

Meanwhile, the fact that Tyrannus sent Jango clearly places the continuity of these events after Maul's death. He could not have placed the order.

Your idea involves the whole Jedi Council being in on a conspiracy to cover up who Maul was, it involves Maul placing an order for something after he died, for an army which GL's interview makes clear was only required AFTER the shortcomings of the droids were show up (this, by the way, completely destroys your idea). It involves Sifo-Dyas having never been seen by anyone in the Jedi Order ourside of the Council who are then further embroiled in this unusual conspiracy of silence.

let us be clear. It is only Windu and Yoda that are keeping anything back, and this is specifically about Sifo-Dyas who is xlearly a plot point for the current story, not anything to do with Darth Maul who was just a thug introsuced as a bad guy for TPM and for whok there is no more to whatsoever.

Now, if you are not prepared to have your ideas criticised then perhaps you should not post them. As it is, don't get so shirty about having such a ill-thought out idea roundly contradicted.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
My imagination is absolutely fine. That doesn't mean I will accept any old crackpot idea like this one. I'm sorry you are upset I don;t like yor idea but that is because it is anot a very good one. I see absolutely no good evidence to support it and a ton of stuff that contradicts it.

First of all, i was just joking around when I said grab an imagination. LOL. I'm not upset at all. I think it is funny that you are so upset that my theory doesn't fit in your world.

Obi-Wan does NOT give a look which contradicts Sifo-Dyas not being a Council Member, and I am sure he would have said if he was not. His look was that the Kaminoans did not know he was dead.

I think this is very subjective. You think one thing, this does not make it law. He did give several different facial expressions in this scene. I think they could be interpretted differently.

Maul could not have been a Jedi because it would have been impossible to keep that covered up. Qui-Gon speficially says that he could only conclude that the person he fought was a Sith. This is something he would only say if the possibility that it was a Jedi had been COMPLETELY ruled out. Besides which there is absolutely no credible reason whatsoever for this to have been covered up. NONE. Nothing, from the Council's point of view, was even happening at this time.

You are forgetting that Sith can be ex-Jedi. Vader and Dooku are Sith Lords and they were Jedi. So how could it COMPLETELY rule it out as you say? The look and the silence between Yoda and Mace is enough evidence to keep the theory going. That look was something. They knew something that Obi-wan didn't.

Your idea involves the whole Jedi Council being in on a conspiracy to cover up who Maul was, it involves Maul placing an order for something after he died, for an army which GL's interview makes clear was only required AFTER the shortcomings of the droids were show up (this, by the way, completely destroys your idea). It involves Sifo-Dyas having never been seen by anyone in the Jedi Order ourside of the Council who are then further embroiled in this unusual conspiracy of silence.

These are good ideas, but they can be gone around. Sifo-Dyas could have been seen by every one, but Qui-gon and Obi-wan. Who says they told everyone their story. Tell the council and let them deal with it. Gosip is for girls. hehe. As for the interview saying why the clones were ordered, I can't comment on what I haven't heard. If it isn't in the movies or a few books, you will have to give me a link so I can read it.

let us be clear. It is only Windu and Yoda that are keeping anything back, and this is specifically about Sifo-Dyas who is xlearly a plot point for the current story, not anything to do with Darth Maul who was just a thug introsuced as a bad guy for TPM and for whok there is no more to whatsoever.

I said the council itself was keeping it back... not just Yoda and Windu.

Now, if you are not prepared to have your ideas criticised then perhaps you should not post them. As it is, don't get so shirty about having such a ill-thought out idea roundly contradicted.

I don't care is you post stuff about my dumb little theory, just to say that it has no credability was rather humorous. ROTFL. You take this so seriously. A few movies and books.... that is all it is. GL made this world to promote imagination and that is a quote. My imagination says my theory works a little.

I'm laughing so hard I almost wet myself.

Um, don't you remember in TPM when Maul said" At last we reveal ourselves to jedi, at last we will have revenge."???

Of COURSE Sith can be ex-Jedi, but Qui-Gon wouldn;t have been CERTAIN he was a Sith unless he had ruled out being a Jedi! Which I thought I made pretty clear. If he had dissocvered that Maul was a Jedi he would have left the option opoen. But Maul WASN'T a Jedi, yet was trained in the Jedi arts. So, as Qui-Gon said, he had to be a Sith. Hence him being a Jedi is completely ruled out, as I say.

And I know that YOU said the whole Council was keeoing it back. I was saying you arr wrong, it is only Windu and Yoda who are hiding anything, as shown in AOTC.

You should check out George Lucasaquotes for yourself, but he clearly said that the bad guys start looking at clones because of the droid's poor performance in TPM. That utterly rules out Maul. BTW, do you even have the first inklings of a motive as to why they would cover up who Maul was? And how it is possible?

Meanwhile, hunourous or otherwise, your idea is no good, no matter how imaginative it is. And I am happy to stand by that.

Actually Ush, only Yoda knows. Mace obviously agrees with Obi-Wan at the end of the film about the Clones. He is nodding his head in agreement until Yoda interrupts.

Maul very well could have been a Jedi. And maybe he is Master Syfo-Dyas.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Of COURSE Sith can be ex-Jedi, but Qui-Gon wouldn;t have been CERTAIN he was a Sith unless he had ruled out being a Jedi! Which I thought I made pretty clear. If he had dissocvered that Maul was a Jedi he would have left the option opoen. But Maul WASN'T a Jedi, yet was trained in the Jedi arts. So, as Qui-Gon said, he had to be a Sith. Hence him being a Jedi is completely ruled out, as I say.

As you say one cannot be Jedi and Sith at the same time. Once a Jedi quits the Jedi order and joins the Sith he is Sith, not Jedi. So Qui-gon is correct, Maul was trained in the Jedi arts and wasn't Jedi, he is Sith.

And I know that YOU said the whole Council was keeoing it back. I was saying you arr wrong, it is only Windu and Yoda who are hiding anything, as shown in AOTC.
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Aye, I'm saying the whole council could have held it back.

Again, this is just a fun theory to think over. I really holds water if you think about it. Of course there are holes in it as all theories have in them, but fun to talk about none the less. 😉

*edited to fix quotes

My main problem is still that it is unnecessarily complex. Star Wars is basically simple, after all.

Meanwhile, I agree, Helmet, though I suspect Windu is clued in on the Sifo-Dyas situation, if any.

I agree with you Ush. It is unnecessarily complex. That's the fun of it for me. Come up with a really complex plot out of very little information. Fun, fun, fun. I really don't think at all that the theory would be true, too complex to be at all true. But it works with the given data.

Except, as I say, that the chronology of it all is after Maul died.

You still need to produce that evidence. I can't find anything to support that. This phantom interview probably took place, but where is it? As far as I'm concerned it took place at the same time, not a few months after Mauls death.

It is possible that Maul was once a Jedi. That may be why they cut the lost 20 part of the film. It also fits Sidious's apprentice history. Afterall, it does seem like Sidious likes using former Jedi as his apprentices.

Why would they have cut the lost 20 because of that? Surely they would have known when they created the concept.