Master Sifo-Dyas- a bit of a mystery (SPOILERS)

why is it that everyone appears to be avoiding the simple possiblity? dyas was a jedi who died 10 years ago, and that his name was given the cloners by palpatine/dooku and he himself has nothing to do with anything. the sith are just using lies and deception to munipulate the situation. i know that possibilities abound but maybe the shifty look with mace and yoda was just the result of the same kind of wonder and confusion that we had about the situation. maybe it was a continuation on the theme of the jedi not being able to see whats going on, the dark side clouding everything.

because it is to obvious....?

like Ush said, SW is a simple story

No-one is avoiding that possibility, sarlaac. It has been mentioned several times.

It fails to account as to why this name was given such prominence in the story (because to be honest, unless there is some deeper relevance to this it was a waste of time including it), why they felt impersonating a dead Jedi was a sensible idea, and what the shifty looks were (and again, if you think it was just their confusion, it was a pointless addition. Besides, it clearly looks stronger than that).

What Ush said.

I think Jayntree's theory, whether right or wrong, on Darth Maul being Sypo-Dyas is a good one. There are plenty of facts to support it, and in all fairness to dispute it also, but that's why it is called a theory. One, they both died around the same time. Two, Qui Gon said he was trained in the jedi arts before he said he was a sith (and i don't even think he said he was a sith). Three, no one saw him that was able to report him other than Obi Wan and its clear that he had never seen Sypo-Dyas, for all we know Qui Gon knew it was Maul and he was keeping quiet about it just like Yoda and Mace could be because they choose to keep it a secret that Sypo-Dyas was still alive but had converted to the dark side. Three, Sypo-Dyas was trained in the old school way of light sabre fighting, maybe that was having a staff sabre with sabre's on both ends like Maul had in order to fight rather than a lone sabre. Four, Sypo-Dyas was a very powerful jedi and after all, it would've taken a very powerful jedi, or sith of course, to kill Qui Gon. Five, Ush you keep arguing about the time period, that Maul was killed after Sypo-Dyas, well maybe they say Sypo-Dyas died almost ten years ago meaning that's when he changed to the dark side and then he did in fact die as Darth Maul. And six of course and it is very very clear that Sidious goes after the jedi's that are in question about what's right and wrong, and ONLY the jedi's, i.e. Dooku and Skywalker, which supports this theory of Maul being Sypo-Dyas or at the least an ex jedi even more.

they knew who syfo dias was and they knew he was killed ten years pripor to AOTC. Qui Gon would have recognized Maul as Syfo when he encountered him

Sypo-Dyas was trained in the old school way of light sabre fighting, maybe that was having a staff sabre with sabre's on both ends like Maul had in order to fight rather than a lone sabre

Two, Qui Gon said he was trained in the jedi arts before he said he was a sith (and i don't even think he said he was a sith).

fint... the thing we know is that "Syfo Dias died almost ten years ago" ... that's something 😉

and QGJ said that it was a sith because it was the only explanation that could remotely be right, even if everybody knew they were extinct for a millenia, he was indeed very puzzled by it

Good Lord, I do not believe people brought this outdated fossil up!

It's not a theory, it cannot be realistically backed; it is a hypothesis at best and not a great one.

Ush, spare me with the "not a great one" statement and theory and hypothesis are synonyms so you contradicted yourself. Finti, you basically just restated what I said in a counterargument which would therefore support what I said. Qui Gon would have most likely known that Maul was Sypo-Dyas if indeed he was, that's why I said maybe he kept it to himself because from the looks of Yoda and Mace, there is obviously something more to this Sypo-Dyas. And Ush you seem like a pretty smart person when it comes to this matter so for you to say that it can't be realistically backed baffles me. There are plenty of connections in this relationship. I'm not here to say that Maul is in fact Sypo-Dyas, I really don't even believe he is whatsoever. However, it's still a good theory considering no one else has really come up with just who Sypo-Dyas is. And NO ONE has yet had a better counterargument that he cannot be Sypo-Dyas. I've only heard people ridicule the theory with absolutely no logical counterargument. So I look forward to someone giving me some "facts" that would demonstrate that he is not Sypo-Dyas.

I just checked a few scenes again, especially for you saitouhajime ...

for your theory:
"Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago"
and there is ten years between TPM and AOTC, so in other words, Maul was in two pieces already when Sifo-Dyas died and someone else could have taken his place.
"almost ten years ago" is still not "ten years ago", that's an important difference.

QH did say he was a sith, "My only conclusion can be that it was a sith (lord?)" to which Ki Adi responded "Impossible, the sith have been extinct for a millenia."
and that holds no sense to your Maul is Sifo arguement imho,
it was placed there to show the audiance that the Jedi thought the sith died and that in other words they didn't expect a sith to be behind a masterplan to become emperor or what ever.

What makes you think OB1 never saw Sifo-Dyas??? For all you know, they were pretty good friends and all!
And how can QG know it was Maul? did they talked or something? no! they fought and that was it!
And Maul can't be Sifo-Dyas for the simple reason that there are TWENTY Jedi that exciled the order (the latest one was Dooku); as far as we know, Sifo never left the order but died during the call of duty and that's a fact! If you say they did it to keep it quiet, then I can say it was Yaddle who was sifo-dyas! she was a leading member of the jedi council and wasn't around ten years later, perhaps yoda and mace wanted to keep that quiet? I mean, that way with keeping things quiet you can even make JarJar the emperor due to some mind trick he uses to make peopel believe he stands there 🙄

How can you know SD was trained old school???? you saw him fighting? and the staf is NOT old school, if anything is old school it's the curved handle of dooku!

your point four: again, he isn't one of the lost 20

for your point five, I already said that ten years ago and "almost ten years ago" as OB1 says it are different and that Maul died before Sifo did.

don't get your point six though
____

there ya go, someone posted some facts out the top of his head to keep this thread ontopic 😉

Very good counter points yerssot, however I just have a few things to state. Almost ten years doesn't necessarily mean less than ten years, it can mean more than 10 years just as well. I was under the impression that it says in the book that SD was trained in the old school ways of light sabre fighting, I'm almost certain that is correct. Maybe Qui Gon didn't know who SD was, therefore making Maul being SD even more plausable and it's probably accurate that OB1 didn't know SD because he was a padwon at the time and probably didn't interact with all that many jedi other than QG, his master. Ki Adi says the sith have been extinct for so long which would give me the impression that that is true which would mean Maul was most likely an ex jedi and not a born sith. You got a litttle too extreme for my liking about the "keeping it quiet" argument, your counterarguments for that statement was a little ridiculous so I won't bother sayin' anything about Yaddle or JarJar. And as for my sixth point, I was sayin' that Sidious clearly goes after jedi's that can be turned, i.e. Dooku and Skywalker, so by all rights Maul could've also had been an ex jedi. One thing I don't know about it this 20 exiled jedi thing, would anyone care to inform me what that concerns. And we do not know that Sypo wasn't apart of this 20 and that he was killed in the line of duty, it's never said.

First of all, whoever taught you that a theory and a hypothesis were the same thing does not know his english. Go check your facts- they are entirely different things. I hope it is not the same person who taught you that 'almost ten years ago' can mean 'more than ten years ago'- a self-evidently ridiculous thing to say. Such blatant errors do your credibility no good at all. Almost, by its very definition, means LESS THAN. A hypothesis is an educated guess to try and explain something. A theory is a set of ideas that can be backed with evidence and not contradicted, but cannot be proven. If it can be proven it is a fact.

For example, black holes were a theory when proposed. No-one could prove they existed but they could provide mathematical and astronomical evidence saying that they do exist. Only when we observed their practical effects- and then their existence- did it become fact (though even now some question that)

But Hawking's postulations on what happen INSIDE a black hole- they are hypotheses. They fit what we observe but he can provide no evidence for any of what he says- and cheerfully admits as such.

I have actually presented some very good reasons why Maul is not Sifo-Dyas which I do not intend to waste my time posting all over again having already done so. But as if I even need to prove he is not when it is YOU that needs to prove that he IS, seeing as it is not what the film says and it a very unlikely and objectionable state of affairs. The burden of proof is on you- and if you are going to say that your proof is that they both died around ten years ago, I think all will see that for the untenable nothingness that it is.

The chances of no-one knowing who SD was- despite Obi-Wan clearly knowing a lot about him- are very small and again you would have to work hard to prove such a ridiculous assumption.

It cannot be backed. It is an idea that only JUST fits the facts based on an entirely flimsy and entirely associative- rather than cause and effect- idea, the 'ten years' thing. If it was said in the films, it would be a truth. If you could provide solid evidence that no-one could disprove, it would be a theory and would remain so until we saw if it was true or not in the film. You cannot do that, you can only say it might just possibly fit what we have and even that I would disagree with- that is a simply a working assumption- or a hypothesis. It might fit but without backing it is nothing.

If you are going to say we can accept that sort of thing then I say yerssot is right- it may as well be Yaddle being very clever. Yeah, that is contemptible. But then without more to back it, so is this.

And so please- spare US this vapid nonsense.

(btw, in case you are wandering what I mean by associative evidence- it is like saying that wet pavements cause rain because when pavements are wet it is always raining. That is association, not cause and effect, which is the only valid evidence. That they both died in the same rough period- as did QGJ- is mere association and not evidence.)

from dictionary.com, lemma: almost:
"slightly short of; not quite; nearly: almost time to go; was almost asleep; had almost finished"
so, imho, almost still is less then ten years ago

remember, the novel is the only book that's SEMI-canon, meaning the movie can always contradict, don't have it on campus, so soonest I can check is next weekend, sorry

I always was under the impression everyone knew everyone (talking bout the jedi) and I think someone like SD who was a JC member (OB1 said he died, he would have also said that he wasn't a JC member if he wasn't) , so everyone should know him, I think

true about being a padawan and knowing less other jedi though... though if he really was in the JC that shouldn't have been a problem.

see, about your point of Maul being an ex jedi and not born a sith ... there is a quote from GL, though I have to say I don't know it exactly anymore, perhaps someone can help out...
he said that the sith lay low till it was their time to strike and take control of the universe and that time has come during TPM (it's on the TPM DVD somewhere, but I'm not sure if it was on a internet-doc or "the making of"
(oh, and the idea of it being yaddle or jarjar was supposed to be ridiculous to point out I thought your point about it all being a cover-up was rediculous too because mace already wanted to go to the senate to tell that their power to use the force diminished so I doubt they would cover up a fallen jedi)

imho, every jedi can be turned to the dark side, just takes some time for some or a LOT of effort but everyone has emotions which can turn against them if you try hard enough.

ok, the lost 20... it's a scene cut from the movie, but was still filmed, they didn't placed it in the DVD scenes cause it was kinda boring and such, but the lines and such got out on the net ....
see, in the entire order there have only been 20 persons that ever left the order, their statues are in the library, ob1 even looks at one of them when Jocasta Nu asks if he's having a trouble, that one was dooku if memory serves ...
those 20 were the only one that ever left, nothing more nothing less, and dooku was the last one, ten years ago, after the battle of naboo
and that's why most people think it's him, left at the time the order was placed (and very likely the same time kamino got erased)

now to think of it, .... think sw.c named them once in a jc question

from the official site about the lost 20:
"Only 20 Jedi have ever voluntarily renounced their commissions. It is with great regret that the Jedi order recognize the so-called "Lost Twenty." A Jedi who fails in his training can be a very serious threat. The dark side of the Force beckons to the impatient, and students in the past have been lured to its call with devastating consequences."

http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thejediorder/index.html

In fact, the amount of serious holes in this theory grow and grow. The time sclaing is all wrong. Maul is dead by the time the Clones are ordered- as GL makes clear, Sidious switches to Clones AFTER the failure of the battle droids. The stuff about old style sabre fighting isn;t canon and does not even have to be considered- the old style reference was, in any case, to Dooku. If you accept such non-canon evidence, I simply show you all the other non-canon stuff that clearly describes Maul's origins and totally rule him out as a Jedi.

When QGJ says Maul is a Sith this should directly contradict the whole theory. QGJ's reasoning is that it is trained in the Jedi arts BUT IS NOT A JEDI. Therefore it can ONLY be a Sith. If there was any possiblity of Maul having been a Jedi, QGJ would have gone there instead, and to say it is more complex than that goes against the very grain of the Star Wars ethic.

QGJ and Obi-Wan and Amidala and all her guards and even Anakin all saw Maul clearly and could describe and identify him. SD was clearly an important Jedi- because Obi-Wan does not dispute that, as yerss points out- the idea that at no point anyone ever clocked the link is ridiculous.

It only takes a good swordfighter to kill QGJ- that Maul was. To present QGJs death as somehow being supprting evidence that SD was Maul is a totally barren exercise.

And dare I even add that plotwise, not only would this be poor, it would also be POINTLESS, and achieve nothing. The Sido-DYas thing is, as I originally said, a bit of a mystery. If he was simply Maul, what the heck was the point in that?

Let's face it, until there is ACTUAL proof rather than just vague assumption this enitre idea is rubbish and to say there has been no logical counterargument almost entirely insulting.

Haven't read through everything yet but Ush, look it up, theory and hypothesis are synonyms which is what I said, I didn't say they mean the exact same thing. And no one has really contradicted anything I've said about Maul being SD therefore it is a theory. And the word "almost" means very near, not more or less, therefore it can mean either or so my credibility is by no means in question here. Those two statements above are facts and I'm not here to argue about facts, that's illogical, look it up in your dictionary and thesaurus if you won't take my word for it but i'm fairly certain you already knew this. But anyway, this isn't even my theory, I was just giving it support and the burden of proof is on me but I don't even believe it, therefore, I do not wish to prove it. I was merely saying it was a good theory and there IS evidence to support it no matter what anyone says. I respect your input on Star War Ush, but please don't lecture me on what is a theory and what is not. I haven't read through this whole forum yet and if you have given good counterarguments, then I'm sure I will come across them.

Right, they are NOT synonyms. Sorry, they are NOT. They have entirely different meanings and I used them as such. It is NOT a theory. It is a hypothesis. Lack of contradiction does NOT a theory make. If a hypothesis only existed in that it could be contradicted it would be pointless to make one.

Almost means 'not quite'. When talking in the past tense, when you say something happened almost 'x' amount of time ago, you mean it does not quite reach that. This is basic English, and if you are no good at that it is not my problem but it certainly is yours.

I don't need to take your word for it because I know with much certainty how wrong you are. Your statements are NOT facts, they are untruths and that is the end of it.

let's run this again...
Maul died exactly ten years ago, right?
Sifo died ALMOST ten years ago, right?

that makes Maul died before Sifo?

Absolutely.