The only character, that I would accept ( and that too with great reluctance in my heart ), beating Yoda, would be Darth Sidious. Thats it. But definitely not Darth Sidious's bloody apprentices, and none of the other Jedi either. And not Count Dooku. He may have grown more powerful than 99% of the Jedi ... but not more powerful than Yoda.
I disagree. I believe Anakin will be MUCH stronger than Yoda. There are three hints:
1. Higher midi-chlorian count
2. OB1's suggestion that if Anakin would practice with his sabre more, he would be better than Yoda
3. Palpy says he's becomeing the greatest of all Jedi. Now I know you can say it's a lie to tempt him, but for one, Palpy (and Dooku) mix a lot of truth with a bit of lie, and second why would Palpy be interested in him if Anakin were not exceptionally strong.
Ok ... firstly, a minor point ... Obi Wan made that comment as a sarcastic reprimand to Anakin ... that he was too flippant and cynical ... that is, if he were to spend as much time on his lightsabre skills as on sharpening his wit, he'd be a better swordsman than Yoda ... in other words telling Anakin that he was too smart alecky for his own good.
Now Anakin IS exceptionally gifted and unique ( highest midichlorean count etc.), no doubt about that. With the proper guidance and training and attitude, and with age and experience, he would have probably become a Jedi master as great if not greater than Yoda, but he doesn't recieve the training and guidance of Obi Wan with sincerity and humility ... he balks at the discipline that Obi Wan is giving him for his own betterment and progress, because of an arrogance and overconfidence having developed within himself because of his exceptional abilities, and because of a really short temper that he is unable to control.
So the thing is, we never actually see Anakin reach the full heights he had the potential to reach as a JEDI master ... because, in a very short time after the time period of AOTC, he falls to the dark side of the force, for the rest of his life ... until the very end, where he comes back to himself, and destroys Darth Sidious ( which is why I like to believe that Anakin Skywalker, the Jedi, was more powerful than Darth Sidious ).
But like I said, he never achieved his ultimate potential as a Jedi, so I don't think Anakin the Jedi ( before his fall to the dark side ) ever became so great, as to be greater than Yoda ...
the question, therefore, is whether Darth Vader, lord of the Sith, in HIS prime, at his best ( or worst depending on how you look at it ) was more powerful than Yoda ... and I don't know ... because I don't know how powerful exactly, Lucas will portray a young Darth Vader.
As for Palpatine, of course he's interested in Anakin, because of his unique gifts and power ... and especially because he notices the wayward and emotionally unstable part of his personality, which makes him ripe for being swayed by the dark side ... and the prospect of having one with the highest midichlorean count of all the jedi, as his apprentice and enforcer, would have probably made Sidious salivate. He sees a weakness in Anakin's excessive pride in himself, quite unfounded, because for all his gifts, he's still an inexperienced boy with many things yet to learn and a long way to go ... and also his growing lack of patience with the training and discipline being imparted to him by Obi Wan ... so he begins his " attack on Anakin " by playing on those aspects ; " You don't need guidance Anakin ... " , " I see you becoming the greatest of all Jedi ... " etc.etc.
The thing is, just because he says that doesnt mean that he actually DOES become the greatest of all Jedi ( something he had it in him to achieve ), because long before he can realize his true potential as a Jedi, he stops being one and becomes Darth Vader ...
therefore I say, Anakin never becomes as great or greater a Jedi master as Yoda, although he could have, because he spends the prime and most powerful years of his life as a sith lord.
Therefore the question : Is Darth Vader more powerful than Yoda ?
Maybe ... the thing is, this is a character whose sheer force potential is greater than any jedi ( highest midichlorean count );
there's of course the theoretical point that Darth Sidious's midichlorean count is not known ... but just putting that aside for a minute ...
He is exceptionally strong with the force; now :
Case 1 : He wields the power of the force for good, and expresses the force through the good / light side.
Case 2 : He uses the force negatively and to do evil, and expresses the force through its dark side.
The way I like to think of it is, in Case 2, Darth Sidious is his superior, because Darth Sidious's mastery of the dark side and its expression is unmatched ... in other words, he's the master sith lord; or, to put it another way, the most superior sith lord. Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus or Darth Vader ... none of them have achieved the same mastery over wielding the dark side of the force as Darth Sidious; that's why they have all been his apprentices. Of the three, in my opinion Darth Vader is obviously the most powerful, by virtue of his sheer raw force potential and exceptionally unique powers, but even he is not as great a SITH LORD as is Darth Sidious, who is on another level entirely, when it comes to mastery over the dark side. It also implies, that Darth Sidious cannot be destroyed by another sith lord, or by anyone who would want to fight him using the dark side, i.e. anyone who WOULD want to defeat Sidious would firstly have to be exceptionally strong with the force, but furthermore, importantly, would have to use the LIGHT side of the force to beat him, because if it came to a contest of dark force tricks, Sidious is unmatched.
But Case 1 is a different matter; here its not a case anymore of a contest between who's the most powerful sith lord and who has achieved the best mastery of the dark side. Here Anakin, the one with the strongest raw force potential, is wielding his strength with the force, through the light side of the force, and for good and positivity. In this case I believe, he is stronger than Darth Sidious, i.e. Anakin wielding the light side of the force has the power to overcome even Darth Sidious, operating through the dark side, and who is almost invincible and furthermore, Anakin is the ONLY one, of all who use the lightside of the force ( i.e. the jedi ) who is powerful enough to overcome Darth Sidious. In that respect I suppose he achieved what even Yoda couldn't.
This is just my theory of course, and it does have many knotty points in it. Not very difficult to find weaknesses in it, but I feel it does have some merit. We've already been through a similar discussion a few months ago, and I was hoping AOTC would clear a lot of these points, but now I guess we'll have to wait till Ep.3 for these clarifications.
In any case, of one point I feel very sure ... Count Dooku is definitely NOT the equal ( and definitely NOT the superior ) of Yoda ... whether it's sheer strength in and mastery of, the force, or lightsabre duelling skills or whatever ... except, maybe if it was a contest to get a date with a human female ! Even there, I think, after having seen Yoda in action in Episode 2, he would rate higher in a pole amongst the ladies as to who they find more attractive between him and Dooku ! 😉
Originally posted by master harmax
BTW Yerrs : I obtained a bootleg camera print in VCD format ... I realize that is hardly the way to watch this movie ... and that the effect is not even half as much as one would get if one saw it properly in the theatre .. but I didnt want to wait till the 7th of July, while everyone here is discussing and analyzing the movie in depth. And furthermore ... my having obtained a bootleg, will not stop me from seeing it atleast 4 times at the theatre when it does release here. The thing is ... if I enjoyed a camera print with bad sound and video on my computer monitor ... when I see it in the theatre ... well ... I dunno ... I think it might just make me stop smoking ... hehehe 😉 [/B]
I see a copy on VCD (2 cd's, nice image, good sound). I look it on my TV and it looks ok. BUT I REALLY WANT TO SEE IT ON THE BIG SCREEN!
I like it a lot. Anakin is a confused kid, and I like hayden doing it. But I really love YODA. sorry, yerss. CGI rules here. Every single bit of image with the "great warrior" deserves HOURS of eyes looking it...