Originally posted by Eman5805
It can't be too strong, but to say it's "overpowered" you have to realize that Ichigo barely beat the #6, so if Ichigo gets thunked around, it wouldn't seem like bad writing to me. It seems in Ichigo's future to beat Ulquiorra, but what if he doesn't?What if Unohana has to step in?
Ichigo didn't use his Mask until a while in...just like this fight. Also, his entire fight with Grimm Jow is PIS, to me. He should have wiped the floor with Grimm Jow.
Originally posted by Eman5805
It can't be too strong, but to say it's "overpowered" you have to realize that Ichigo barely beat the #6, so if Ichigo gets thunked around, it wouldn't seem like bad writing to me. It seems in Ichigo's future to beat Ulquiorra, but what if he doesn't?What if Unohana has to step in?
Aye, not long ago Ichigo was barely able to scratch regular Grimmjaw......
Originally posted by Eman5805
I just had another thought, what if Ichigo has to take the Hollowfication another step further to win?
I've stated something very similar before. Ichigo is as powerful as at most as the #5 Esapda. I don't know how he'll pull a win out with a #4.
But even that logic is wrong.
Here is the flow.
Ichigo beat Kenpachi when both went their hardest. Ichigo trained and got much stronger and many many times faster in Bakai form.
Kenpachi beat a skinny ass #5, who was released. It took him to the brink of death. Kenpachi passed out from the loss of blood and a deep deep wound from Ichigo and Ichigo broke his Sword when BOTH were sharpening their swords with all their might.
Ichigo is much much faster in his Bankai form and much much stronger. His sword, in that form, is ultra concentrated. Probably like adamantium. Reason stands that he could wipe the floor with #5.
Now, Ichigo also got another HUGE power and speed boost from his Vizard form.
So WHY the F*** did he have trouble with Grimm Jow?
Either the fight Kenpachi had with #5 was PIS beyond belief or the writer has GREATLY depowered Ichigo through PIS. It's one or the other.
If the story was to flow logically, Ichigo should have wiped the floor with all of the Espada or at least up to 2. The difference between each level Espada is significant. The difference between Yammi and Stark should be exponential.
Or the first fight with Ichigo was PIS.
Considering he had a full-revitalization, and a TEMPORARY power amp from being in absolute sync. with Zangetsu, and Kenny, who only got serious for the final strike, had already suffered several grievous wounds. Then, when they clashed, Kenny stabbed Ichigo right through the heart, KOing him, and Ichigo barely did a thing by comparison, but Kenny already had several wounds. And so, after Ichigo collapsed, so did Kenny. And Ichigo did not beat Kenny, it was a draw.
Oh, and maybe Kenny got stronger?
Hell, it is hinted he has even made progress with his sword.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Or the first fight with Ichigo was PIS.Considering he had a full-revitalization, and a TEMPORARY power amp from being in absolute sync. with Zangetsu, and Kenny, who only got serious for the final strike, had already suffered several grievous wounds. Then, when they clashed, Kenny stabbed Ichigo right through the heart, KOing him, and Ichigo barely did a thing by comparison, but Kenny already had several wounds. And so, after Ichigo collapsed, so did Kenny. And Ichigo did not beat Kenny, it was a draw.
Oh, and maybe Kenny got stronger?
Hell, it is hinted he has even made progress with his sword.
I would suspect that the entire time, Ichigo fights have been PIS.
Was Sea-Shell head really that much stronger than Kenpachi that even after Ichigo's stupid Bankai power amp, he was still almost evenly matched?
I would say that almost every fight was PIS for Ichigo.
I don't think he should have won against Kenpachi. I don't think Kuchiki should have stood a chance against Ichigo after his amp. Grimm Jow should have been dust to Vizard Ichigo. Ulquiorra shouldn't have even been given a chance to release his form.
Also, it's called "Bleach" not because of Ichigo's hair, but because Tite Kubo wanted to give the feel of the color white. Confirmed in Shonen Jump Magazine. Just found that out.
Edit- Both Ichigo and Kenpachi admitted defeat in their fight. I just reread part of those chapters.
Double Edit- However, I see what you're saying. Ichigo fell first. But Kenpachi's sword broke. There is two interpretations from that fight. Ichigo won because he had a stronger resolve and focus. Kenpachi won because Ichigo fell first.
However, the both fell, so it was a draw.
Now, knowing that...do you honestly think that Kenpachi made as much progress in strength as Ichigo? Surely not. It would be absurd to think any other character made as much progress as Ichigo in a year's time. He's...like...the Naruto of Bleach. lol
Originally posted by stickman618
did they slow Ichigo down after his fight with Byakuya or are we to assume that all of his new enemies are just that fast too??
Well, all of Ichigo's "speed" doesn't exist anymore. After he fought with Kuchiki, for some reason, he doesn't have that speed in his Bankai form. Lame, really.
He went from being able to move so fast that he deflected thousands to millions of tiny blades to being barely able to keep up with his opponenets. Kuchiki fought that Espada that had the fastest Shunpo. When Kuchiki did his think, that guy couldn't do shit. Why? PIS.
Originally posted by dadudemon1. Possibly.
I would suspect that the entire time, Ichigo fights have been PIS.Was Sea-Shell head really that much stronger than Kenpachi that even after Ichigo's stupid Bankai power amp, he was still almost evenly matched?
I would say that almost every fight was PIS for Ichigo.
I don't think he should have won against Kenpachi. I don't think Kuchiki should have stood a chance against Ichigo after his amp. Grimm Jow should have been dust to Vizard Ichigo. Ulquiorra shouldn't have even been given a chance to release his form.
Also, it's called "Bleach" not because of Ichigo's hair, but because Tite Kubo wanted to give the feel of the color white. Confirmed in Shonen Jump Magazine. Just found that out.
Edit- Both Ichigo and Kenpachi admitted defeat in their fight. I just reread part of those chapters.
Double Edit- However, I see what you're saying. Ichigo fell first. But Kenpachi's sword broke. There is two interpretations from that fight. Ichigo won because he had a stronger resolve and focus. Kenpachi won because Ichigo fell first.
However, the both fell, so it was a draw.
Now, knowing that...do you honestly think that Kenpachi made as much progress in strength as Ichigo? Surely not. It would be absurd to think any other character made as much progress as Ichigo in a year's time. He's...like...the Naruto of Bleach. lol
2. Nope, Kenpachi just does this thing where he never tries his hardest against his opponents, everz. Unless he has to.
3. Why? Considering Grimmjow>Byakuya, and Ulquiorra>>Grimmjow, and yes, Kenny should not have lost, but here is what you are forgetting, Ichigo's amp against Kenny was temporary, as in it never happened again.
4. Wut
5. Yeah, I know.
6. Considering Kenny is like Ichigo in alot of ways and is just as much of a natural...Yeah.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Possibly.
Indeed. Waaaay too much fluctuation on speed and power. It's similar to DBZ. No matter how weak or strong the opponenet is, the protagonist is just not strong enough to defeat the enemy until some sort of resolve or power amp.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
2. Nope, Kenpachi just does this thing where he never tries his hardest against his opponents, everz. Unless he has to.
I agree that Kenpachi could have wiped the floor ith Ichigo. However, Ichigo was faster than Kenpachi, yet, Kenpachi defeated #5. Shouldn't #5 have been much too fast for Kenpachi?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
3. Why? Considering Grimmjow>Byakuya,
I agree, somewhat. I'd say the Byakuya's Bankai, when he uses his hands, would be too fast for Grimm Jow. I also think that Ichigo's Bankai form would be too fast for every single person to ever appear in the manga. However, the writer wrote his Bankai to be too fast, aka, PIS. Because of that, he had to write it slower.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
and Ulquiorra>>Grimmjow,
I agree on every level. Intellect, speed, strength, etc.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
and yes, Kenny should not have lost, but here is what you are forgetting, Ichigo's amp against Kenny was temporary, as in it never happened again.
Hmm...I would say that he lost the need to amp like that. His Bankai form is a much much more powerful form of that time he focused his and his sword's reitsu. However, there's not saying that he couldn't do that in his Bankai form.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
4. Wut
Our conversation reminded me of when I asked everyone in here why it was called Bleach and there were several answers and most to none were correct.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
5. Yeah, I know.
You agree that it was a draw? (not that it was, technically, but both admitted the lost.)
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
6. Considering Kenny is like Ichigo in alot of ways and is just as much of a natural...Yeah.
However, Kenpachi has been alive for hundreds of years. Ichigo has been a Shinigami for a year. Ichigo obtained his Bankai in 3 days. Kenpachi hasn't yet. Ichigo grew in 3 months more than any other Shinigami has ever done. He became stronger in 3 months faster than any other Shinigami has ever hoped to have done in their wildest dreams. Kenpachi isn't even in the same plane of existence when it comes to quickly learning or growing in strength.
However, that doesn't change the fact that I like him the best. 😄