That doesn't change the fact that in the real world, developers will barely even realise it's power.
You posted a cut-and-paste tech sheet which everyone has already seen. People bang on about it's capabilities and yet there's no evidence to suggest any developer will fully realise what its capable of. Look at the current XBox, it still hasn't been used to its full potential.
You can keep kidding yourselves about the PS3, just like everyone kidded themselves about the PS2. You won't see THAT Killzone up and running on PS3 hardware. If it does, that trailer will be about as long as the actual game would be.
People say games like GTA will be even bigger, with better graphics. How so? Do you realise how long it would take to model a highly detailed city three times bigger than San Andreas? You're probably looking at a) A smaller city with great graphics or b) A huge map with less detail. It's one or the other. How on earth do people think these games are made? Magic?
San Andreas itself struggles on the hardware its on. Streaming problems, bugs, frame-rate issues. It's a next-gen game trying to shed some of its weight (textures etc) and cramming onto the current hardware. The next gereation is likely to do things like San Andreas, but better, slicker and bug free, as opposed to more polygons, longer and bigger. The next generation is likely to be more about doing ambitious projects, like San Andreas, but on hardware that doesn't have so many limitations, and as a result a better game is created.
With all the leaps in technology, there's no denying games are getting shorter in general, despite development taking longer. The one big advantage is Blu-Ray and it's high definition capabilities. That's about it. PS3 will likley be the machine that unofficially launches the Blu-Ray format into mainstream consciousness, just like the PS2 helped the DVD format take off.
Originally posted by Red Superfly
Err... what? The XBox 360 is actually proving what it can do. Games, up and running and playable. Good for them.The PS3 has so far given us lies. A fake pre-render of Killzone (there's no way in hell finished PS3 games will look like this) and a big render of Alfred Molinas realistic head (yeah, while you spend a month making the characters head, you may wish to consider the rest of the game you'll need to make and, you know, program).
Sony has everyone fooled. Everyone seems to forget the PS2. Emotion Engine? Remember that? Remember how the PS2 was gonna link up to everything you have? Remember the promises of super-realistic graphics (which we still have NEVER even seen a game come close to copying)? Remember The Bouncer and how it would define next gen (and when it was released, was a pile of crap - how many of you have heard of this game anyway)?
The PS3 chip isn't even finished and tested. Nothing was truly running on the hardware.
Sony are known for empty promises. Sony are smart however, in that they know most people these days have the memory and attention span of a retarded goldfish. Throw any tech specs and promises of teraflop power and they'll be sold. Just like the PS2.
So far, I trust Microsoft. Wow, I never thought I'd ever hear myself say that. They have games, almost finished, ready to go. They've proven themselves. They have also acknowledged smaller development companies and what they can do. Sony, on the other hand, have shown us whats possible, in a best case scenario (a movie-like budget, with a team the size of the Lord Of The Rings crew, with a massive, generous budget, and with the best coders and artists on hand, could MAYBE make a game like Killzone 2). In the real world, PS3 is gonna be no better than the 360. It'll be like what the XBox was to the PS2. More powerful, but hardly used to it's full potential. Just more polygons.
Yea
Originally posted by Cait Sith
You guys don't know the first thing about the Next Gen consoles, and if you do you don't seem to be showing any signs of it.First off the Killzone Demo was not Pre-Rendered however it was sped up from 5fps to 60fps for the video.
Second you are right about the PS3 and the hardware not ready yet, and that it wasn't done on the PS3 hardware. However the Alpha kit which produced the fine looking trailers at E3 are less powerful than what the PS3 is going to be when it is finalized. The Graphics cards that were being used were 2 x 6800 Ultras in SLi, the RSX which is what will be used in the final version is supposed to be twice as powerful. Quite a few of the trailers just used the Cell Chip to render the graphics and the sounds.
Heres what the specs are looking like for when it will come out.
CPU
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPSGPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelinesSound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1Not to mention that the PS3 will be using Blu Ray while XBOX 360 will still be using DVD-9, which is definitely not enough to hold the amount of High Definition gaming and Movies to whet our appetite.
I'll believe it when I see it! Oh and pne more thing... Sony bases on CRAPPY sports games... The PSP is a load of crap... They started the blasted thing as an EXACT duplicate of the GBA SP... They have stolen Nintendo games like final fantasy and Megaman and make it out as if they created the games! Sony is full of CRAP, and their system that everyone says is sooo great with it's Final fantisy Just remember they stole it from nintendo!
Originally posted by Red Superfly
That doesn't change the fact that in the real world, developers will barely even realise it's power.You posted a cut-and-paste tech sheet which everyone has already seen. People bang on about it's capabilities and yet there's no evidence to suggest any developer will fully realise what its capable of. Look at the current XBox, it still hasn't been used to its full potential.
You can keep kidding yourselves about the PS3, just like everyone kidded themselves about the PS2. You won't see THAT Killzone up and running on PS3 hardware. If it does, that trailer will be about as long as the actual game would be.
People say games like GTA will be even bigger, with better graphics. How so? Do you realise how long it would take to model a highly detailed city three times bigger than San Andreas? You're probably looking at a) A smaller city with great graphics or b) A huge map with less detail. It's one or the other. How on earth do people think these games are made? Magic?
San Andreas itself struggles on the hardware its on. Streaming problems, bugs, frame-rate issues. It's a next-gen game trying to shed some of its weight (textures etc) and cramming onto the current hardware. The next gereation is likely to do things like San Andreas, but better, slicker and bug free, as opposed to more polygons, longer and bigger. The next generation is likely to be more about doing ambitious projects, like San Andreas, but on hardware that doesn't have so many limitations, and as a result a better game is created.
With all the leaps in technology, there's no denying games are getting shorter in general, despite development taking longer. The one big advantage is Blu-Ray and it's high definition capabilities. That's about it. PS3 will likley be the machine that unofficially launches the Blu-Ray format into mainstream consciousness, just like the PS2 helped the DVD format take off.
Originally posted by Red Superfly
Err... what? The XBox 360 is actually proving what it can do. Games, up and running and playable. Good for them.The PS3 has so far given us lies. A fake pre-render of Killzone (there's no way in hell finished PS3 games will look like this) and a big render of Alfred Molinas realistic head (yeah, while you spend a month making the characters head, you may wish to consider the rest of the game you'll need to make and, you know, program).
Sony has everyone fooled. Everyone seems to forget the PS2. Emotion Engine? Remember that? Remember how the PS2 was gonna link up to everything you have? Remember the promises of super-realistic graphics (which we still have NEVER even seen a game come close to copying)? Remember The Bouncer and how it would define next gen (and when it was released, was a pile of crap - how many of you have heard of this game anyway)?
The PS3 chip isn't even finished and tested. Nothing was truly running on the hardware.
Sony are known for empty promises. Sony are smart however, in that they know most people these days have the memory and attention span of a retarded goldfish. Throw any tech specs and promises of teraflop power and they'll be sold. Just like the PS2.
So far, I trust Microsoft. Wow, I never thought I'd ever hear myself say that. They have games, almost finished, ready to go. They've proven themselves. They have also acknowledged smaller development companies and what they can do. Sony, on the other hand, have shown us whats possible, in a best case scenario (a movie-like budget, with a team the size of the Lord Of The Rings crew, with a massive, generous budget, and with the best coders and artists on hand, could MAYBE make a game like Killzone 2). In the real world, PS3 is gonna be no better than the 360. It'll be like what the XBox was to the PS2. More powerful, but hardly used to it's full potential. Just more polygons.
Agreed, 100%. 👆
Originally posted by Cait Sith
You guys don't know the first thing about the Next Gen consoles, and if you do you don't seem to be showing any signs of it.First off the Killzone Demo was not Pre-Rendered however it was sped up from 5fps to 60fps for the video.
Second you are right about the PS3 and the hardware not ready yet, and that it wasn't done on the PS3 hardware. However the Alpha kit which produced the fine looking trailers at E3 are less powerful than what the PS3 is going to be when it is finalized. The Graphics cards that were being used were 2 x 6800 Ultras in SLi, the RSX which is what will be used in the final version is supposed to be twice as powerful. Quite a few of the trailers just used the Cell Chip to render the graphics and the sounds.
Heres what the specs are looking like for when it will come out.
CPU
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPSGPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelinesSound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1Not to mention that the PS3 will be using Blu Ray while XBOX 360 will still be using DVD-9, which is definitely not enough to hold the amount of High Definition gaming and Movies to whet our appetite.
CPU
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)
AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
^ PS3 Specs
Now check out the 360 specs, people.
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU
* Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
* Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
* VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
* 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
* 1 MB L2 cache
CPU Game Math Performance
* 9.6 billion dot product operations per second
Custom ATI Graphics Processor
* 10 MB of embedded DRAM
* 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines
* Unified shader architecture
Polygon Performance
* 500 million triangles per second
Pixel Fill Rate
* 16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA
Shader Performance
* 48 billion shader operations per second
Memory
* 512 MB of 700 MHz GDDR3 RAM
* Unified memory architecture
Memory Bandwidth
* 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
* 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
* 21.6 GB/s front-side bus
Overall System Floating-Point Performance
* 1 teraflop
Storage
* Detachable and upgradeable 20GB hard drive
* 12x dual-layer DVD-ROM
* Memory Unit support starting at 64 MB
I/O
* Support for up to four wireless game controllers
* Three USB 2.0 ports
* Two memory unit slots
Optimized for Online
* Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features with broadband service, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, gamer profile for digital identity, and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies, or listening to music
* Built-in Ethernet port
* Wi-Fi ready: 802.11a, 802.11b, and 802.11g
* Video camera ready
Digital Media Support
* Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD
* Ability to stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras and Windows XP-based PCs
* Ability to rip music to the Xbox 360 hard drive
* Custom playlists in every game
* Built-in Media Center Extender for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
* Interactive, full-screen 3-D visualizers
High-Definition Game Support
* All games supported at 16:9, 720p, or 1080i, with anti-aliasing
* Standard-definition and high-definition video output supported
Audio
* Multi-channel surround sound output
* Supports 48KHz 16-bit audio
* 320 independent decompression channels
* 32-bit audio processing
* Over 256 audio channels
Physical Specs
* Height: 83 mm
* Width: 309 mm
* Depth: 258 mm
* Weight: 7.7 lbs.
System Orientation
* Stands vertically or horizontally
Customizable Face Plates
* Interchangeable to personalize the console
Wow, it looks like the PS3 specs wipe out the 360 ones....
I don't think so.
The XBOX 360 will wipe out the PS3, and you'll be there to watch it all go down.
Originally posted by Red Superfly
Err... what? The XBox 360 is actually proving what it can do. Games, up and running and playable. Good for them.The PS3 has so far given us lies. A fake pre-render of Killzone (there's no way in hell finished PS3 games will look like this) and a big render of Alfred Molinas realistic head (yeah, while you spend a month making the characters head, you may wish to consider the rest of the game you'll need to make and, you know, program).
Sony has everyone fooled. Everyone seems to forget the PS2. Emotion Engine? Remember that? Remember how the PS2 was gonna link up to everything you have? Remember the promises of super-realistic graphics (which we still have NEVER even seen a game come close to copying)? Remember The Bouncer and how it would define next gen (and when it was released, was a pile of crap - how many of you have heard of this game anyway)?
The PS3 chip isn't even finished and tested. Nothing was truly running on the hardware.
Sony are known for empty promises. Sony are smart however, in that they know most people these days have the memory and attention span of a retarded goldfish. Throw any tech specs and promises of teraflop power and they'll be sold. Just like the PS2.
All true.
I remember a fellow poster raving about The Bouncer (mentioning no names, Alpha Centauri) and that was possibly one of the crappiest games of all time. Sony is a hype machine.
I remember all the spec comparisons of the current gen- apparently PS2 smoked the Cube. We all know how that one turned out.
Originally posted by Fierce Deity
I'll believe it when I see it! Oh and pne more thing... Sony bases on CRAPPY sports games... The PSP is a load of crap... They started the blasted thing as an EXACT duplicate of the GBA SP... They have stolen Nintendo games like final fantasy and Megaman and make it out as if they created the games! Sony is full of CRAP, and their system that everyone says is sooo great with it's Final fantisy Just remember they stole it from nintendo!
big whup. Microsoft "stole" hardware and a bunch of crap from Apple, changed it enough to call it their own, and look at microsoft now, but its not a big deal anymore. sony and microsoft are gonna rip off nintendo's "revolutionary" ideas, and make it better and sell more, and soon it won't matter who's original. The psp is way different from gba sp. and nintendo is not that great, how come they lost 2 generations of the console wars??? and whats so special about Pikmin?
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
All true.I remember a fellow poster raving about The Bouncer (mentioning no names, Alpha Centauri) and that was possibly one of the crappiest games of all time. Sony is a hype machine.
I remember all the spec comparisons of the current gen- apparently PS2 smoked the Cube. We all know how that one turned out.
Come on ladies. Xbox lovers recken that halo graphics are the best. But compared Metal gear solid 2, halo graphics look like someone wiped there ass with a pine cone than scrawled half heatedly on to a pieces on torn canvas with the pine cone.
PS 3 is gonna sink the crap box360 (hopefully literally).
Originally posted by Avenger2.0
Come on ladies. Xbox lovers recken that halo graphics are the best. But compared Metal gear solid 2, halo graphics look like someone wiped there ass with a pine cone than scrawled half heatedly on to a pieces on torn canvas with the pine cone.PS 3 is gonna sink the crap box360 (hopefully literally).
Halo 2
Halo 2 has superior shading, coloring, and polygonal graphics compared to MGS2.
Get some glasses, fanboy.