Pis/cis
What is it, people seem to have many views.
If a character background states that a character is only capable of so much, but then they PASS their expectation, and contradict them at times, should we accept it?
I'm sure we know some of the infamous characters (wolverine, bats, etc.) who are RIDDEN with it.
Should we accept what they do if it fluctuates so much, and we know it has a different motive. (popularity, etc.)
What do you guys think?
indeed, like batmyth being punched by darkseid and smashing through concrete walls. i think bats could survive (survive, as in need to spend time in a hospital afterwards) if hes wearing body armor and darkseid isnt putting all he has into it. but if darkseid punched him hard enough to smash through a wall, bats is dead. do you know how much force is required to make a human body go through walls? more than bats can survive, im afraid...and thats coming from the mind of a batman fan...
Originally posted by Lord-of-DreamsI agree, people will usually say things like "he knocked down xxx", but ignore the parts with him getting smacked around japan.
Well, guys like logan get CIS debates from people who completely forget the other half of the story (PIS) or viseversa, depending. It's become a tool, and, along with character fluxuation, is a deadly stupid, yet sticky thing.
CIS, however is included in debates, logan doesn't really have any CIS, except for the fact that he fights with little restraint, though some people make him out as batman.
Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
indeed, like batmyth being punched by darkseid and smashing through concrete walls. i think bats could survive (survive, as in need to spend time in a hospital afterwards) if hes wearing body armor and darkseid isnt putting all he has into it. but if darkseid punched him hard enough to smash through a wall, bats is dead. do you know how much force is required to make a human body go through walls? more than bats can survive, im afraid...and thats coming from the mind of a batman fan...
Yes thats quite ridiculous also, but people put tells of him taking hits from an angry superman.
The deal is that batman and logan are big walking plot devices. Like batman and his tool belt, can you classify a limit? No, so its used to every writers expectation, and fluctuates, just like the healing factor.
So in debates, you get people who use the best of what he does in full ignorance, and expect you to buy it like candy at a half-off sale.
Also guys like strange and doom can be big PD characters, (plot device)
Well, the majority of the time, CIS is just a particularly, if contradictory and paradoxical, high showing for the character in question, with the real problem being that, basically, everybody is wearing rose-colored glasses. They see only the feats that they wish to see, and they blindly pass by and blithely ignore what constitutes a low showing for the character in question. Sure, the character fluctuates, but there is something of a middle ground, which does not have to be, in all actuality, the character's actual profile. The mercuriality and flux of any character that has not been exclusively written for is assured, and even when you have a singular writer, there is still the off-chance that he attempts to raze and wreck what he has built up. A character could, one day, have trouble with ordinary street thugs and insane asylum patients, and the next day, go toe-to-toe with gods, demons, unspeakable horrors from before the dawn of time, scientific aberrations that have destroyed terrestrial spheres, fallen celestial beings, and in general, horrors that the character should not even begin to be able to want to quantify the smallest imaginings of tackling. Of course, there are certain incidences where you get unimaginably poor writing, that goes against everything that the character is and has ever been, and that, IMO, is true CIS.
PIS is a different mechanism used by writers, though. It is merely a vehicle by which means the writer in question can transport an act of God into the storyline, and by that means preserve the character from whatever harm he comes in contact with, creating extraordinary bouts of luck and unbelievable exploits that defy whatever sense of logic and common sense the reader might have. You could have an ordinary, everyday human with no abilities that are out-of-place in this world, stroll through sustained gunfire, survive falls that should shatter their body and leave them a crippled husk, preform acts of puissance that rival that of the powers that be, and in general proceed in such a fashion that offends the sensibilities of anyone who expected to read a mature story, and instead received an anticlimactic fairytale, where everything has been said and done, and all that's left is to flip the pages for surprises that you expected and twists that you saw coming to jump out at you, but all in a way that furthers the tired, worn, fatigued plot. By means of this particular form of plot, the writer can basically trash the story, turning it from an adventure, into a completely clichéd romp through the park, complete with commonplace occurrences such as megalomaniacal villains attempting to conquer/destroy the world, all in the name of good triumphing over evil.
So, to answer your question, CIS is possibly acceptable, as long as it is not too incredible, as at that point, it ceases to be that character, and instead, becomes an entirely different thing altogether. PIS is not really acceptable in a debate, as it is nothing but plot device, put in there so that the hero triumphs despite, literally, impossible odds.
Originally posted by EsteemedLeaderMotherbox and New God armor [which if its like most other things New Gods make is not only stronger than most any metal, but auto heals itself.]
indeed, like batmyth being punched by darkseid and smashing through concrete walls. i think bats could survive (survive, as in need to spend time in a hospital afterwards) if hes wearing body armor and darkseid isnt putting all he has into it. but if darkseid punched him hard enough to smash through a wall, bats is dead. do you know how much force is required to make a human body go through walls? more than bats can survive, im afraid...and thats coming from the mind of a batman fan...
Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
Well, the majority of the time, CIS is just a particularly, if contradictory and paradoxical, high showing for the character in question, with the real problem being that, basically, everybody is wearing rose-colored glasses. They see only the feats that they wish to see, and they blindly pass by and blithely ignore what constitutes a low showing for the character in question. Sure, the character fluctuates, but there is something of a middle ground, which does not have to be, in all actuality, the character's actual profile. The mercuriality and flux of any character that has not been exclusively written for is assured, and even when you have a singular writer, there is still the off-chance that he attempts to raze and wreck what he has built up. A character could, one day, have trouble with ordinary street thugs and insane asylum patients, and the next day, go toe-to-toe with gods, demons, unspeakable horrors from before the dawn of time, scientific aberrations that have destroyed terrestrial spheres, fallen celestial beings, and in general, horrors that the character should not even begin to be able to want to quantify the smallest imaginings of tackling. Of course, there are certain incidences where you get unimaginably poor writing, that goes against everything that the character is and has ever been, and that, IMO, is true CIS.
Great post!! I have to disagree with you, PIS is more of what you mentioned. Think for a second, if it happened for a particular situation (Deadpool impaling Hulk), then that is a PIS scene.
Cis is part of that character, I.E peter parker not killing, or Rhino just being a natural dumbass, or wolverine charging in.
Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
PIS is a different mechanism used by writers, though. It is merely a vehicle by which means the writer in question can transport an act of God into the storyline, and by that means preserve the character from whatever harm he comes in contact with, creating extraordinary bouts of luck and unbelievable exploits that defy whatever sense of logic and common sense the reader might have. You could have an ordinary, everyday human with no abilities that are out-of-place in this world, stroll through sustained gunfire, survive falls that should shatter their body and leave them a crippled husk, preform acts of puissance that rival that of the powers that be, and in general proceed in such a fashion that offends the sensibilities of anyone who expected to read a mature story, and instead received an anticlimactic fairytale, where everything has been said and done, and all that's left is to flip the pages for surprises that you expected and twists that you saw coming to jump out at you, but all in a way that furthers the tired, worn, fatigued plot. By means of this particular form of plot, the writer can basically trash the story, turning it from an adventure, into a completely clichéd romp through the park, complete with commonplace occurrences such as megalomaniacal villains attempting to conquer/destroy the world, all in the name of good triumphing over evil.
Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
So, to answer your question, CIS is possibly acceptable, as long as it is not too incredible, as at that point, it ceases to be that character, and instead, becomes an entirely different thing altogether. PIS is not really acceptable in a debate, as it is nothing but plot device, put in there so that the hero triumphs despite, literally, impossible odds.
Power fluctuations are a fact of life with so many different writers and editors not bothering to coordinate their efforts. I try to find a typical power level to use as a reference for a character. They may be able to exceed this in a big dramatic moment, but what's their day-to-day best?
P.I.S. is when writers don't bother to think things through, or choose to pverlook the implications of something in furthurance of some other plot element. Even otherwise good writers can be guilty of this. Steve Englehart is a classic repeat offender. Professor Xavier having an ultratech floating chair but not being able to get some powered braces to walk with when he neds to is P.I.S.
C.I.S is when the Character looses his cool or misses something or whatever. My favorite example of this is when Hawkeye ditched his weapons and dried to duke it out hand to hand with U.S. Agent. Hawkeye was so enraged he just wasn't thinking clearly, and he paid the price for it. If he'd kept his cool, he's have eaten Walker for breakfast.
P.I.S. is a statistical outlier and I don't weight it very heavily. How prone a character is to C.I.S is something to consider.