Originally posted by Whirlysplatt🙄
I don't think Tipler mentioned Phoenix in his omega point Lunacy either 🙂 It feeds into something I did a thread on in GDF on the Technological Singularity 🙂 Interesting but equally flawed🙂
That doesn't mean that Marvel didn't base Phoenix off of the Omega Theory.
No but Jesse is outside of creation and is esoteric to investigate the sociology of theology not promote a Quack theory😂
The thread is interesting its on another idea which is similair and a little more possible than the Omega point 😉 even though its my thread its still a dodgy idea 🙂
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=359909&highlight=Singularity
Originally posted by WhirlysplattIt doesn't matter what kind of theory another person basis their ideas for entertainment.
No but Jesse is outside of creation and is esoteric to investigate the sociology of theology not promote a Quack theory😂The thread is interesting its on another idea which is similair and a little more possible than the Omega point 😉 even though its my thread its still a dodgy idea 🙂
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=359909&highlight=Singularity
That's what it's based on. regardless of weather it's true or not.
You don't need to accept the idea. Doesn't matter if it's impossible.
Comic books haven't exactly been known for their accuracy, and fidelity to reality.
Originally posted by Creshosk
It doesn't matter what kind of theory another person basis their ideas for entertainment.That's what it's based on. regardless of weather it's true or not.
You don't need to accept the idea. Doesn't matter if it's impossible.
Comic books haven't exactly been known for their accuracy, and fidelity to reality.
The marvel interpretation is poor anyway 🙂 hence another problem I have with Phoenix, Marvel can't even get what the omega point is right 🙂
Originally posted by Creshosk
It doesn't matter what kind of theory another person basis their ideas for entertainment.That's what it's based on. regardless of weather it's true or not.
You don't need to accept the idea. Doesn't matter if it's impossible.
Comic books haven't exactly been known for their accuracy, and fidelity to reality.
Exactly. He doesnt like the o p theory and he doesnt like phoenix so he'll argue against them for the sake of arguing. 😛
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
No but Jesse is outside of creation and is esoteric to investigate the sociology of theology not promote a Quack theory😂The thread is interesting its on another idea which is similair and a little more possible than the Omega point 😉 even though its my thread its still a dodgy idea 🙂
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=359909&highlight=Singularity
Explain in real Laymans terms. I've just tried reading an A.S. physics book and i think its fried my brain.
The omega Point is a verry cool concept but a bit dubious(if thats the right word). I mean are we already made up of the same thing any way? E.G. We are just the after effects of energy effecting Space/time.
Originally posted by WhirlysplattThis doesn't matter either.
The marvel interpretation is poor anyway 🙂 hence another problem I have with Phoenix Marvel can't even get what the omega point is right 🙂
Jessie is a ridiculous premise for a comic book as far as reality goes, he's to be accepted as an exception to the regular comic book as his purpose is different.
Phoenix is also a ridiculous premise in a comic book, but this doesn't change what the character's premise is or what the character does.
I could create a world based on a flat earth where bad smells can really upset the balance of humors in the body resulting in illness. The premise is ridiculous, but does that mean that my idea isn't what my idea is?
Originally posted by yahman
Explain in real Laymans terms. I've just tried reading an A.S. physics book and i think its fried my brain.The omega Point is a verry cool concept but a bit dubious(if thats the right word). I mean are we already made up of the same thing any way? E.G. We are just the after effects of energy effecting Space/time.
The Omega Point and the Final Fate of Life
How long can life survive in the universe? Can it evolve forever, or will the third law of Thermodynamics lead to universal heat death? Apparently there might be some ways around this fate, if intelligent life is sufficiently clever and tenacious.
Essentially life has to adapt as the universe grows older, changing itself to be able to survive when the stars grow cold. If the universe is open, there will be plenty of time to work in, but energy will become very scarce. Dyson has shown that a finite amount of energy is enough to guarantee infinite survival if it is spent sufficiently slowly (this is called the Dyson scenario).
On the other hand, if the universe is closed, it will recollapse into a Big Crunch after a finite time, becoming hotter and hotter. Life has to adapt and restructure itself to these conditions, and if intelligent beings accelerate the speed of their mental processes accordingly they can even experience a subjective infinite time during the last stages of the collapse (this is called the Tipler scenario).
A third possibility is that the universe may be open or closed, but new baby universes branch off due to natural or artificial causes, and intelligent life can survive indefinitely by migrating into new domains as the old become uninhabitable. This is commonly called the Linde scenario.
Tiplers scenario is Omega Point as it stands today🙂 sort of : taken from http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Omega/
Originally posted by WhirlysplattAnd I liked some of the other characters more before they were the way they are now. But my opinion on the way the characters should be doesn't change the way the characters are now.
I liked the original idea for Phoenix, (waiting for the usual contradictory answer)
Originally posted by WhirlysplattAnd I liked Jean Grey being alive and with cyclops during the times they were both faithful to each other.
to the Grant Morrison connected Phoenix to God one 🙂 waits..........................
Nothing I can do about that, doesn't change that Scott is with Emma now.
Originally posted by Creshosk
This doesn't matter either.Jessie is a ridiculous premise for a comic book as far as reality goes, he's to be accepted as an exception to the regular comic book as his purpose is different.
Phoenix is also a ridiculous premise in a comic book, but this doesn't change what the character's premise is or what the character does.I could create a world based on a flat earth where bad smells can really upset the balance of humors in the body resulting in illness. The premise is ridiculous, but does that mean that my idea isn't what my idea is?
irony coming up..........wait for it..........."No Creshosk it just makes your ideas ridiculous". (in the context of this scenario) 😖mart:
Originally posted by yahman
Intregued ?What is this Omega Point theory. (to Chescock)
Whats the cosmological constant go to do with it ? (to whirly)
Heres a basic explanation from Xplosive. Keep it in mind and then read New Xmen 154:
Originally posted by Xplosive
Omega Theory taht is about mathematical explanation of the existence of God and the afterlife. It argues scientific progress and the evolution of human intelligence are bound to grow exponentially, leading to the development of one omnipotent artificial intelligence ''God'' whose computing speed outpaces the universe’s collapse, thus providing infinite "virtual time" which could be used to resurrect anyone who ever lived.
Heres another from a good friend:
X-Men Annual 11: Into the Funhouse
The X-men are attacked by an incredibly powerful alien called Horde,who seems to know everything about them and laughs off their attacks with ease.He says that he will destroy the earth if they do not retrieve for him an object which will give him the power to rule the Universe.
He teleports them to a strange citadel,guarded by statues of alien creatures,with a kree and a skrull at the forefront.While they proceed into a labyrinth inside the citadel they are confronted one by one by their hearts’deepest desires.When they surrender and enter the world of their dreams their bodies become statues.Only wolverine and storm,with great effort,resist.They arrive into a miniature version of the citadel,inside of which there’s a crystal that pulses with immense power.Horde appears.Wolverine pushes Storm into a crystal wall,where she’s caught back into her dream,to save her, and tries to fight Horde alone.Horde tears his heart out,but a drop of Wolverine’s blood falls on the crystal.Wolverine is istantly resurrected,and kills Horde.He wonders if this is what Jean Grey felt when she became Phoenix.He senses everything,every particle of matter,every living being in creation.He has the power to remake the Universe as he wishes.But he knows that it would be fundamentally wrong,he resists even the temptation to resurrect the other x-men and shatters the crystal.The entire citadel is destroyed.The x-men awake on earth,in their beds.They seem to have all made the same dream. Everyone remembers their secret fantasy,and thinks about parts of their beings that they did not have the strength to acknowledge and confronct openly before.But soon memories fade.A universe away,the statues move,and the citadel is reformed from the ruins.From the beginning of time,every race had to undergo this test.Those who arrive at the end of the labyrinth and yet resist the ultimate temptation are returned home,and their race is allowed to blossom to its full potential.But those who try to use the crystal are transformed into its guardians, and their races’ evolution is halted and locked in a dead end.
Comment
-A crystal which gives unlimited power,a desert citadel,the heart’s desires instead of nightmares,and then the guardians.The outer appearance is deceivingly different,but to me this was
meant to be the M’Krann Crystal in disguise.After all the forms inside the M’Krann Crystal are always fleeting and illusory.Probably even Horde was a part of the test.
Among the Phoenixes we see Quentin Quire,Kid Omega,who apparently died in Nxm 138.Back then Beast said that his brain cells were converting into faster than light energy and disappearing one by one.Quentin said he heard thoughts in many different languages simultaneously,has a vision of “rooms greater than the whole world” and said that he has yet to be born in this rooms-he has also visions of the future which anticipate Planet X.Much of this resonates with the idea of phoenixes as avatars whose true existence is outside normal time,or “angels” of sorts in kabbalistic interpretation.However the name “omega”,the brain cells that transform into faster than light energy,and the sudden increase in the “capacity to process information” point to Keith Tipler’s Omega Point Theory,which Morrison referenced other times in the past.Unbelievable as it may seem,it is a real theory.It runs as follows:life is capacity to process information.Long after organic life is dead,it will have learned to evolve to a point where “superintelligences” will exist as a kind of quantum computers,processing information at near light speeds (comics are not limited to real-world physics,so Quentin mind can be quicker).These beings process and store increasing amounts of informations.Now,if some conditions (among which,the Many Worlds Interpretation) are fulfilled,the theory prevedes that those beings will be able to manipulate the Universe in order to
create the Omega Point,a space-time boundary in which the amount of information stored at any given time diverges to infinity.The Omega point is described as a singularity or a space-time boundary whitout event horizon,(for reasons that have to do with the information loss paradox of black holes),and which is a convergence point for the parallel universes,or at least many of them.(so the M’Krann Crystal-Neutron Galaxy or Sun-Nexus of Realities is again spot-on for the task).The Phoenixes are the equivalent of the “Omegons”,beings which exist on the boundary of the Omega Point and mainstream the parallel universes,or at least a majority of them,towards the Omega Point,and manipulating wormholes spawn new universes (“the baby universe” which lost its parents) which are enginereed towards confluence through their own local omegas that channel into the main one.Universes are then “downloaded” into the Omega Point,meaning that their amount of information is passed to it.Since the omega point has unlimited and divergent to infinity capacity to process and store information,it can easily recreate not only a single Universe,but an infinite number of Universes.For example,Tipler says that a human being can be perfectly copied with 10 raised to the 45 bytes of storage capacity,while 10 raised to the 10 raised to the 123 bytes would be enough to recreate all possible variants of a Universe.The fact that the information from a single Universe is sufficient to recreate a whole set of parallel Universes explains why Quentin was so careless with Jean’s Universe.So the phoenixes enter normal space-time in order to steer evolution towards the realization of the Omega Point in the distant future,and they bring ever-new Universes to the eternal immortality of the White Hot Room,Big Bang after Big Crunch after Big Bang...forever.
This ties also very neatly with the “test” of the Crystal as in Xm Annual 11,because the creation of the Omega Point needs a coordinated effort between all the areas of the collapsing Universe.Cooperation and generosity win over a simple “survival of the fittest”.Self-centered guys like Thanos or Apocalypse,for example,risk to end up as the supreme beings of void universes which will never be downloaded into the hyperuniversal heaven of the Omega Point/White Hot Room.
Originally posted by Creshosk
And I liked some of the other characters more before they were the way they are now. But my opinion on the way the characters should be doesn't change the way the characters are now.And I liked Jean Grey being alive and with cyclops during the times they were both faithful to each other.
Nothing I can do about that, doesn't change that Scott is with Emma now.
🙂 😉 😖hifty:
Originally posted by Xplosive
Omega Theory taht is about mathematical explanation of the existence of God and the afterlife. It argues scientific progress and the evolution of human intelligence are bound to grow exponentially, leading to the development of one omnipotent artificial intelligence ''God'' whose computing speed outpaces the universe’s collapse, thus providing infinite "virtual time" which could be used to resurrect anyone who ever lived.
His gettin Omega point confused with Vinge's Singularity but much of it is OK 😉 and dodgy marvel interprtation of Omega point 🙂
Originally posted by WhirlysplattBut it doesn't change what they are.
irony coming up..........wait for it..........."No Creshosk it just makes your ideas ridiculous". (in the context of this scenario) 😖mart:
So Phoenix may be ridiculous AND not what either of us prefers. But what we want doesn't change what she is.
Originally posted by Creshosk
But it doesn't change what they are.So Phoenix may be ridiculous AND not what either of us prefers. But what we want doesn't change what she is.
No - but the fact it proposes to use Omega Point ideas but doesn't is funny. As is one of the many Gs contradictions Grant Morrison did this in the new continuity but the Phoenix is in its original idea form from Claremont. 🙂
PS - Crseh this is not one of the anomalies I mentioned earlier 😉
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The Omega Point and the Final Fate of LifeHow long can life survive in the universe? Can it evolve forever, or will the third law of Thermodynamics lead to universal heat death? Apparently there might be some ways around this fate, if intelligent life is sufficiently clever and tenacious.
Essentially life has to adapt as the universe grows older, changing itself to be able to survive when the stars grow cold. If the universe is open, there will be plenty of time to work in, but energy will become very scarce. Dyson has shown that a finite amount of energy is enough to guarantee infinite survival if it is spent sufficiently slowly (this is called the Dyson scenario).
On the other hand, if the universe is closed, it will recollapse into a Big Crunch after a finite time, becoming hotter and hotter. Life has to adapt and restructure itself to these conditions, and if intelligent beings accelerate the speed of their mental processes accordingly they can even experience a subjective infinite time during the last stages of the collapse (this is called the Tipler scenario).
A third possibility is that the universe may be open or closed, but new baby universes branch off due to natural or artificial causes, and intelligent life can survive indefinitely by migrating into new domains as the old become uninhabitable. This is commonly called the Linde scenario.
Tiplers scenario is Omega Point as it stands today🙂 sort of : taken from http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Omega/
There is some sort of telescope (ill get the name in a min) that has confirmed that the universe is closed, yet the third option is the most likely. If is also theorised that an Einstein Rosen bridge (I can't spell) maybe used to escape into one of these alternate universes/realities. Ironically it would mean using the ultimate killer of the universe E.G. the cosmological constant (Negative energy).
What i don't understand is how the computer can think beyond time ? There is this book by Issac Asimov that turns some sort of Super Computer into God(ill have to look it up again). The last line is humorously 'Let there be light'
Originally posted by yahman
There is some sort of telescope (ill get the name in a min) that has confirmed that the universe is closed, yet the third option is the most likely. If is also theorised that an Einstein Rosen bridge (I can't spell) maybe used to escape into one of these alternate universes/realities. Ironically it would mean using the ultimate killer of the universe E.G. the cosmological constant (Negative energy).What i don't understand is how the computer can think beyond time ? There is this book by Issac Asimov that turns some sort of Super Computer into God(ill have to look it up again). The last line is humorously 'Let there be light'
Lots do the Jesus Effect by Herbeart
The Lathe of God (I think thats what it was called)
About the teloscope not exactly Yahman Hubble gave some data that was intepretated in a way by some cosmologists to mean this 🙂
The computer Question is part of Verner Vinges ideas on the Singularity 🙂