Revan vs Mace Windu

Wait! Before you say anything let me speak first...this has not been done before! Believe me I searched through all 39(or was it 38?) pages of this forum and did not find a single thread saying Mace Windu vs Revan. If I am wrong...well than...oh well.

Combatants: Revan DS, Post-KOTOR II. Mace Windu as of ROTS.

Setting: Valley of The Dark Lords on Korriban.

Weather: Typical Korriban weather being hot and dry.

Third Person Parties: None. No vicious beasts or other Sith just Mace and Revan.

Side Note: Just for debating sakes lets assume that Revan is using one red saber and a mix of Type 2 and Type 3 lightsaber styles.

🙂 My theory! Hold on. . .

"I personally have to give Mace a better chance against Revan than anyone featured in the movies. Not because he is superior to them, but because of his fighting style. Now, while obviously an extremely skilled duelist on his own, it's Revan's remarkable precognition that allows him nigh invincibility against most. Now, people who disagree with this are either going to have to choose from two options concerning the Dark Lord:

1) The theory is correct; Revan's pre-cog is one of the major factors in his dueling skill, not Force abilities, but the ability to win a duel.

2) The precognition really isn't all that great, and so does not help very much in a duel.

Now, the reason that Revan's precognition is important in this argument is because of its characteristics. "Tactical Prediction", right? If so, Mace has an excellent chance of staving him off for a time because of Vaapad, the form that completely defies prediction. It is unpredictability in raw form, wielded by arguably the most talented swordsman the Jedi Order has had in its ranks.

If option two is chosen, then Revan's precognition is not as effective as many of you seem to claim.

I'd personally go for #1, since of course, it is my theory.

Now, nobody misunderstand me here. I am in no way saying that Mace would defeat Revan in a duel. But he would give Revan some trouble, seeing as how his unpredictability in Vaapad nearly nullifies Revan's precog advantage.

And it helps to have three mastered forms (Ataru, Djem So, Juyo/Vaapad) to call upon in a duel."

No, the battle precog is not listed as tactical prediction. That's some brain bug that grew out of the Handmaiden's totally bogus statement about Echani elders being able to predict wars (Which makes no sense because neither Yusanis nor Atris ever demonstrated that ability). Really, it's just jedi attunement on crack. To delve a bit into how it works in-game, it should be noted that it gives a defense bonus from your wisdom modifier. This is stacked with the already present jedi defense feat. And as a side item, it's a light side power, even though it's passive. Don't ask em why on that one.

But the implied effect of the Exile's battle precognition is being able to read moves well in advance of the actual moves. Revan is quoted as having it (And the Handmaiden noted it like it was a rarity, so obviously the Echani consider this battle precognition to be higher than the well-known jedi reflexes, and also she notes that they were the two exceptions of which she knew outside of the Echani people.)

Another musing, why would any one jedi earn such an ability on his own? I'm wondering if it isn't something either learned by working with the Echani, or perhaps I'm delving too much into it... Either way, Revan's battle precognition DOES aid him in melee combat. But it does not apparently aid him in tactics.

I can't decided who would win...although I am leaning towards Revan.

Tactical prediction isn't all that useful if both combatants can use the Force. Seeing as both fighters have the capability, they cancel out. Skill matters most in this area.

Tactical prediction is more for evading the clumsy blows of non-Jedi combatants or hitting just right, or deflecting blasters.

Uh, Rex? Read what I wrote. It's -not- tactical prediction. It's simply not.

Then replace it with whatever term EU has come up with for it.

Well...

That is really hard to decide. In terms of force powers I guess Revan maybe has an advantage here but I guess it won't be enough to kill Mace with that so it comes down to lightsaber combat.

In sheer lightsaber combat I think Mace has a little advantage. We don't know what form Revan used - most likely Juyo or something that Tulak Hord developed (but he won't be as good as Hord himself). If it's Juyo than Mace would have an advantage here with his Vaapad (and Juyo mastery) - if it's something that Hord developed I would rate it equal to Vaapad. At least I'd give Mace a slight advantage because he mastered some forms and is a natural talent in swordfighting.

Now it comes down to special abilities or the question what ability would do better in melee combat. Revans battle pre-cog is nice since he might be able to predict Mace's movements (but I don't give that thing a 100 % accuracy). Shatterpoint on Mace's side is also nice since he can spot and exploit weakpoints of his opponents - and even Revan had some of them.

For a decission...well...I can't decide. If Revan doesn't pull something off to kill Mace with force powers I think Mace might be able to defeat Revan in a lightsaber fight but it will take a long time and still can result in Mace getting defeated. Well...I'd say 51/49 % in Revans favor.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Well...

That is really hard to decide. In terms of force powers I guess Revan maybe has an advantage here but I guess it won't be enough to kill Mace with that so it comes down to lightsaber combat.

In sheer lightsaber combat I think Mace has a little advantage. We don't know what form Revan used - most likely Juyo or something that Tulak Hord developed (but he won't be as good as Hord himself). If it's Juyo than Mace would have an advantage here with his Vaapad (and Juyo mastery) - if it's something that Hord developed I would rate it equal to Vaapad. At least I'd give Mace a slight advantage because he mastered some forms and is a natural talent in swordfighting.

Now it comes down to special abilities or the question what ability would do better in melee combat. Revans battle pre-cog is nice since he might be able to predict Mace's movements (but I don't give that thing a 100 % accuracy). Shatterpoint on Mace's side is also nice since he can spot and exploit weakpoints of his opponents - and even Revan had some of them.

For a decission...well...I can't decide. If Revan doesn't pull something off to kill Mace with force powers I think Mace might be able to defeat Revan in a lightsaber fight but it will take a long time and still can result in Mace getting defeated. Well...I'd say 51/49 % in Revans favor.

I gotta go with Nai.

Wow, now Mace is good competition for Revan!? I never thought it was possible. Sweet! 💃

I must be a sucky thread maker...more than half of my threads get hardly any replies.

Now people I know most of you think Revan can't be judged right and has to be judged on all we know of him. But seriously, Mace is a great fighter no doubt about it. I'm sure if he would have lived in another time he would have owned pretty much everybody (if he wouldn't have fallen to the Dark Side)

But Mace does not have the experience he needs against lightsaber wielders, I also doubt Revan uses Juyo, it doesn't suit him if you ask me. Based on nothing but what we know of his personality I would have to say he's probably a Soruso/Makashi user. That he combined the two styles.

He is said to be a better duelist then Malak who is described as the best dueller of the order at the time (Except for Revan of course) Now they had some good duellers in that time, and a lot of Jedi that actually knew how to fight, so being the best means more then in the time of ROTS (not that something like that makes Mace weaker, it doesn't but i'm just saying.)

Now I personally think Revan has the edge here, they both have special powers that help them fight but Revan has the experience and can not seriously be called a bad duellist. He probably has the edge on force powers, based on his control over the Star Forge. We know he controlled a powerful form of Lightning more powerful then what Dooku has shown.(Said so by the Rakatan) So his control over the force can not be bad. And this is a power he used against weak foes, he's probably going to have some extra shit up his sleeve in case he fights more powerful beings. Of course thats just a guess, but personally I think there is enough evidence to show he could beat Mace.

Especially Post Kotor II Revan, who if he is still alive probably only got more powerful since Kotor I. And this is in the valley of the Dark Lords a place Revan knows and a place filled with the Dark Side. All in all I see Mace putting up a good fight, but I don't think he has a chance of winning.

He is said to be a better duelist then Malak who is described as the best dueller of the order at the time (Except for Revan of course) Now they had some good duellers in that time, and a lot of Jedi that actually knew how to fight, so being the best means more then in the time of ROTS (not that something like that makes Mace weaker, it doesn't but i'm just saying.)

Where is it said that Revan was the best duelist of the time?

Originally posted by Rand al'Thor
Where is it said that Revan was the best duelist of the time?

In kotor, i'll get you the quotes soon enough i'm playing the game again.

IMO, We dont know enough about revan do decide, really. We know plenty about mace and how he uses a lightsaber. I just dont think he could beat revan unless he really fights tough and pulls some shit out of his sleeve as well.

Hello and yes just for the reference Dragon 89 and Rand al'Thor are one and the same. I finally remembered my old password! But would you no it? They claim that I made this account in June!

Not sure how they could be wrong. The system does the dating. So unless your ISP pulled something clever or you messed with the time zone and totally pwned the computer, it should be accurate.

Originally posted by Lord Janus
Not sure how they could be wrong. The system does the dating. So unless your ISP pulled something clever or you messed with the time zone and totally pwned the computer, it should be accurate.

Then why does it say June? My Rand al'Thor acount is older than June yet I know that Dragon 89 is older than my Rand al'Thor account.

Maybe it's activated by your first post. Double check.

Originally posted by Lord Janus
Maybe it's activated by your first post. Double check.

Nope can't be I checked it myself...I think it is an error in the system or somthing.