Who in the Marvel Universe has a better chance of beating Deathstroke inH2H combat?

Started by King KAM5 pages

Originally posted by long pig
The chainmail basically means wolverine's claws wouldn't penetrate but maybe a half inch, then stop. Promethium=Adamantium. And a Promethium Staff of 40ton blasting power and/or intense heat and Promethium Sword.

Not to mention Slade is 10-20x smarter than Wolverine and can outthink him 100 fold AND he had weapons like batman carries. Ya know, grenades that K.O superboy and wondergirl? Plus, Slade is faster and stronger and at least equal in fighting ability, maybe Slade is even a better fighter. He's written equal to Shiva.

Yeah, Wolverine loses, badly.

Wolverine never beat Cyber except with major PIS.


wolverine did beat cyber my friend, he took his eye, and in their last brawl, he messed up his face and beat the hell out of him scratching him up, and then in another battle he beat him by tackling him off a cliff.

P.I.Ssy to the extreme.

Originally posted by long pig
P.I.Ssy to the extreme.

nah, cyber could only lift up to 5 tons, AND!!!! he wasnt that good of a fighter, wolverine made sure to strike his face and out fight him.

Originally posted by Orestes
Funny, I do follow martial arts, and I'm pretty much aware that kicking is considered highly ineffective in real fighting. To the extent that it IS used, it's mostly kicks against the other person's legs because your leg doesn't have to cover as much distance and isn't made as vulnerable with such a kick. Kicking is otherwise HORRIBLE -- it's slow (even the fastest kicker can't complete a kick NEARLY as rapidly as the fastest puncher can complete a punch) and easily countered compared to a punch, it puts you on one foot (and therefore easily knocked off balance and down), and if you kick high, it's a good way to lose instantly as your leg is grabbed. Having your arm grabbed is bad ... you could end up in an arm lock. But at least you still might have your balance. Having your leg grabbed is DISASTROUS ... you're hopping on one foot, pretty much at your opponent's mercy.

The UFC octagon, by the way, is quite large -- large enough to get a halfway decent running start going toward your opponent. How much space do you NEED, man? Would a whole city block be good enough for your kickboxer fighter? Or should the space be even bigger ...?

And I've watched the fights, and it isn't the size of the octagon that's the problem. People who try to kick very much get taken down right in the MIDDLE of it, with plenty of room left to retreat. It has nothing to do with not having enough room and everything to do with the fact that for the most part, kicking. Just. Sucks.

The point of this thread isn't to defend fighting styles... and I'm drunk. But I will attempt to counter your assesment of Tae Kwon Do as pure garbage. First off, I highly doubt your knowledge of fighting strategy and techniques because of several of your posts.

1) You say punches are more effective? You've got to be kidding me. Even the quickest and most focused jabs take several consecutive blows to cause any damage to any experienced fighter who can dodge or block and cause many of these jabs to glance. Now what about the kick? Just think of a kick to the head as someone punching you with his arm,... except his arm is as big and muscular as an average person's leg. If you can picture someone, with an arm as ridiculously large as that, you'll see why kicks are more dangerous than a punch whether or not they are faster.

2) And that assessment of speed is a pure misapplication. Your confusing a full length's kick time to reach its target to that of a full length's punch's time to reach its target. First off, the time is off by milliseconds when comparing experts. Experts' kicks can reach up to 70-80 miles per hour in terms of speed. Second, what kind of kick are we talking about? A kick to the head? Because you're literally covering 7 feet from the ground to the person's head if its your rear foot, whereas you're covering at most 4 feet with your punch to the head even if its your offhand. If you're covering 4 feet, like a kick to the legs, its pretty equal in terms of speed and range covered, oh... except you have more muscle... and more power...

3) When is the last time you have seen someone grab someone's leg after they made a quick and strong high-roundhouse? I have watched an insane amount of UFC fights and my brother has watched even more, and we cannot think of a single instance where someone grabbed someone's high-roundhouse during mid-kick or after blocking it with their arm. Do you know what would happen to your hands by trying to catch a kick like that in mid-flight? Your hands are going to fracture. Do you know what would happen to your blocking arm if you put it at the side of your head trying to block an expert's high-roundhouse? First off, you'd very likely bruise your bone (not just your muscle), you very likely will have a fracture result, and second, you will go flying to the side. You've been playing too much Tekken or Street Fighter if you think high-roundhouses can be easily countered by graqbbing them. Fighters dodge them. This is easier, quicker, leaves you in a better position and less risky. Thats one of the most basic fighting premises! For you to think that fighters grab high-kicks, leaves me thinking that your knowledge of fighting tactics leaves a lot to be desired.

4) Kicking leaves you on one foot, so its very disadvantageous? Let me ask you a question, if you actually gthrew a real punch, like a haymaker... how much leverage are you putting on your lead foot? Or rather your forward foot? If you threw a haymaker, capable of knocking a person out, and someone from behind kicked out your rear foot, you will fall down and/or stagger. There is very little weight on your rear foot, because if there is a lot of weight, you're not twisting your hip and giving your full body's strength into your punch. Yes, its slower to recover after making a high-roundhouse as opposed to a haymaker... but since most fighters dodge or step away from high-roundhouses, lest they be F@$ked up, you also have more time to recover.

5) The Tae Kwon Do that you see, is probably a dozen 15 year olds with purple belts getting manhandled by some 16 year old kid who is twice their size. Granted, I see that too. The Tae Kwon Do you see, is solme 1st degree black belt teaching Tae Kwon Do in sveeral differnt backwards ass stores. Real Tae Kwon Do is a miliotary combat technique first and foremost. It has combined several distinct styles, (mnostly fro Japan) into what a General saw as the most fit for combat situatrions and physical training. There are no color belts. You're ewither a white belt or a black belt. I don't know where color belts came from, but unless you can stand your own in a reasonable fight, you stay a white belt. Do not ever mess with a legitimate Korean issued black belt. It usually takes a decade to obtain just the 1st degree, while people here in the States get theirs in like 16 months. 2 months between each stupid color.

6) Grappling is overrated. Why does it dominate in UFC? BEcause they're one on one in a tight ring. Specific rfeason grappling is overrated? Simple. If you get into a fight with just two people, and you're putting one guy in the armbar, the other guy is going to destroy the back oif you head, oneof the most vulnerable points on a person's body. Kicking isn't the end-all be-all. It relies on basic physics and strength and balance as does everythign else. But it is your most devastating weapon and can be used to keep distance, even against several foes. grappling can't do that and neither can punching (unless you're godly). If you look at tournament Tae Kwon Do fights, people are bouncing up and down because they're ready to jump in any direction to dodge and maneuiver or just flat out sprint in one direction for a better angle. One of the greatest fighting strategies ever conceived for any type of hand weapon combat or h2h combat was the run and single pick off strategy. You're fighting several opponents. You run away, until the fastest one catches up and you take him out before the others can catch up. Rinse and repeat. Punches don't have the power to accomplish this kind of quick knockout and grappling leaves you on the floor tussling. h2h? Kicking is the way to go. That is why Tae Kwon Do focuses so much on kicking and that is why manyh around the world see it as effective.

Is it the best? How the hell should I know. But it isn;t garbage, like you stated. Not by a long shot.

how many tons can deathstroke lift?

Iron fist!!!

Cap can do it.✅

No, you don't grab a roundhouse when it's about to strike you, you grab a slow-ass kick (or just the kicker him/herself) like that early on, before the kicker has built up any power, like Dan Severn did when he took down someone who attempted that very technique on him (unfortunately, I don't know the fighter's name now).

The point about running away to separate multiple fighters opposing you is meaningless in a 1v1 discussion, although yes, it does matter against multiple people. Then again, if it's like THAT, you're much better off grabbing an improvised weapon than kicking anyway.

Now you ARE right about grappling not helping nearly as much against multiple opponents. THAT'S true. And I'll tell you what else: in a REAL streetfight, there's also the problem that if you grapple someone who's serious/crazy enough and happens to have a knife, you're in serious trouble. A knife doesn't need any significant force behind it like a punch or a kick to inflict severe damage.

But if it's at THAT level and you're NOT either running like hell or grabbing anything handy to help you, you're nuts. Kicking is nothing compared to a baseball bat, a 2x4, a broken bottle ... etc.

Weapons is totally outside what we were talking about, so I'm not sure how you're using that premise against Tae Kwon Do, especially since weapons can equally be used as a premise against grappling and punching... So outside of that, since we apparently agree that kicking isn't overrated and can be effective in h2h situations and grappling is useless in any situation where there is more than one opponent, it sounds like we can be we can be friends now! 🙂

Captain America defeated Lady Deathstrike in h2h before! Captain A is one of the best in h2h. Slade might have some surprises but he will be more than surprise when he fight Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Weapons is totally outside what we were talking about, so I'm not sure how you're using that premise against Tae Kwon Do, especially since weapons can equally be used as a premise against grappling and punching... So outside of that, since we apparently agree that kicking isn't overrated and can be effective in h2h situations and grappling is useless in any situation where there is more than one opponent, it sounds like we can be we can be friends now! 🙂

Well, I disagree heartily that grappling is useless when there's more than one opponent. It depends on what you do. Going to the ground probably isn't smart, but if you can control one person and then shove him into the path of another, you've got an immediate and decided edge. Just as one example.

I would imagine a BJJ fighter would not find that difficult to accomplish.

But my thing is that you brought up street/real-life combat situations (where you might face more than one opponent). And no, I wouldn't kick (much) in those, either. Maybe a sneaky shot to the knee or the groin or something. Nothing fancy. Maybe also running like hell at the first available opportunity, unless I had some pressing reason not to. 😛

My legs are strong enough, by the way, to do one-legged squats, and can kick over my head if I wish to ... just to give you some perspective on what I COULD do.