Che!!!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Firstly the Soviet Union comes nothing close to resembling the theoretical Communist state.
Yes, poverty is a misnoma if one compares wealthy nations with developing nations. So?
Thirdly the poverty line isn't defined by 70% of the average wage in the statistics given. It is defined as roughly a quarter of the median household income. Poverty statistics predominantly don't include the homeless. So the figure given for the proportion of population below the poverty line is under-representative.
Again, in theory both systems are meant to produce prosperity for all if everyone works hard. In practice that doesn't occur with either.
Lastly Bardock24 it's pretty presumptuous to say that other people or other views are "obviopusly wrong" if they disagree with your libertarian views and that they all somehow fit into one of your three very generalised categories.

Neither does the US. It claims to be but it is not. It is just as much Capitalist as the Soviet Union was Communist.

Good.

Ok, you say 25% I say 70% I have to admit that I only heard this figure...but now how can we find wich one is the right number? Although I believe it is measured different in teh US. Actually if the Homeless would be included that would account for less Poverty since the median Income of the Households would be lower, right?

But the Capitalistic system is not designed to produce prosperity for everyone...that's jsut wrong. It is designed to give everyone the chance to survive and maybe even advance if they work hard and are good enough.

You need to read what I said. I didn't say that everyone that disagrees with me is obviously wrong but everyone that believes that the Communist System would be the best for everyone...this is easy to proof too..it wouldn't be the best for the doctror who now gets less money for the same work it wouldn't be good for the Business owner..c.ause well he wouldn't have a business to own anymore....

The U.S. is a better example of a true capitalist model than the Soviet Union is of a true communist model.
The median is unlikely to change much. Median's aren't as easily skewed as averages.
It is designed to give everyone the chance to survive and maybe even advance if they work hard and are good enough? Then the design has failed.
You cannot say those people are "obviously wrong" considering you have nothing evidential to support that claim. And you cannot presume to generalise people into categories in the way that you do as if they are an amorphous collective consciousness.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The U.S. is a better example of a true capitalist model than the Soviet Union is of a true communist model.
The median is unlikely to change much. Median's aren't as easily skewed as averages.
It is designed to give everyone the chance to survive and maybe even advance if they work hard and are good enough? Then the design has failed.
You cannot say those people are "obviously wrong" considering you have nothing evidential to support that claim. And you cannot presume to generalise people into categories in the way that you do as if they are an amorphous collective consciousness.

Nope. No....that'S wrong....The US is not a true Capitalist society at all..they are maybe a little more than Germany and such but they are not really.....in that aspect the USSR and the USA are similar.

Ok, I don't know how exactly Medians are calculated and such...but I guess theres something really, really wrong when 10000 (I doun't know the amount of Homeless people) "households" enter it with an income of aboot 0.

No it didn't....there os no true capitalistic system and in those resembling the system most everybody has the chance to succeed. It migh be hard...yes but if one has the ability to work hard and has an idea how to make money of it there'S always a chance....oh and the people that work hard will at least survive....a Comunist system cannot guarantee that cause there would never be enough wealth to actually make sure that it applies.

My friend....I am sure you know that most things that are not actually facts here are merely my opinion....it'S not really necessary to type "imo" behind every new sentence.
But if it hellps you lets say "In my opinion there are only 3 Types of people that support Communism..." ...better?

And I can actually say that people that believe Communism would be the best for "everybody" are wrong...because it wouldn't be the best for me...therefore "everybody" must be wrong.....😐

Yes!! Im a huge fan of Che!!

I did a project on him in High School and I loved it. He was an interesting man and I think (personaly) he was betrayed by Castro!

Viva la revolucion, Che!! Felices Cumpleaños, comandante! droolio

I really have no idea where this Che worship comes from. He was a man of vicious political principles whose small acts of mercy on the battlefield were dwarved by the large acts of injustice born out of his beliefs- that he spoke very plainly about.

If you're going to have a revolution, you are certainly not gonna achieve much by protesting.

The differance between Che and many other revolutionaries and politicians who are ''praised'' by many others is that they did all Che did and worse, and LIED about it. Che openly spoke about what he believed in.

Tell that to the Czechs.

An honest founder of political terror is still a founder of political terror. Honesty may be an interesting concept in that regard but that's still no reason for him to be a positive icon.

che was the best british primeminister of all time

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I really have no idea where this Che worship comes from. He was a man of vicious political principles whose small acts of mercy on the battlefield were dwarved by the large acts of injustice born out of his beliefs- that he spoke very plainly about.

Yeah, but who should communists look upto anywhere else? Mao? Stalin? Castro?

Oh by the way 1969 today he was captured in Bolivia...which means his DeathDay comes up tommorow....not his Birthday 😐

[edit] My Bad...67 not 69

Gramsci?

But that's not really the point, because most people that have a thing about him aren't Communists- in fact, most such people aren't even vaguely living the sort of life Che would have approved of.

Obviously, there were people in that area way worse than him, and if you made a list of "Most evil politicians of the Cold War" there would be a fair few above him, and he was an interesting guy (but then, Stalin was 'interesting' also).

But why the fact he was not the worst causes a whole bunch of people who basically know bugger all about him to pay such homage is beyond me.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Gramsci?

But that's not really the point, because most people that have a thing about him aren't Communists- in fact, most such people aren't even vaguely living the sort of life Che would have approved of.

Obviously, there were people in that area way worse than him, and if you made a list of "Most evil politicians of the Cold War" there would be a fair few above him, and he was an interesting guy (but then, Stalin was 'interesting' also).

But why the fact he was not the worst causes a whole bunch of people who basically know bugger all about him to pay such homage is beyond me.

Yeah I know, I was just making no point.....

I think many people have a thing aboot him cause he stood for something...for rebellion.....and now to give him some respect he is quite an impressive figure....in the famous pic of him he ight be one of the people with the most determination I have ever seen...now of course this doesn't justify the Cult like love for him...but it could explain some of it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No it didn't....there os no true capitalistic system and in those resembling the system most everybody has the chance to succeed. It migh be hard...yes but if one has the ability to work hard and has an idea how to make money of it there'S always a chance....oh and the people that work hard will at least survive....a Comunist system cannot guarantee that cause there would never be enough wealth to actually make sure that it applies.

Capitalism and communism work in theory. The factor that screws both over in practice is people's intrinsic greed, laziness and selfishness. Capitalism simply complies better with people's greed and selfishness.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And I can actually say that people that believe Communism would be the best for "everybody" are wrong...because it wouldn't be the best for me...therefore "everybody" must be wrong.....😐

As for Che. I never understood his hero status. The t-shirts are cliche.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Work hard ergo success under a capitalist model? Hate to break it to you but that's not how the world works. Work hard ergo survive? Yay, people manage to scrape by, just. True communist model cannot guarantee that? Assumption. No wealth? Well if everybody was working hard then why would there be no wealth?

Capitalism and communism work in theory. The factor that screws both over in practice is people's intrinsic greed, laziness and selfishness. Capitalism simply complies better with people's greed and selfishness.
So based on an initial assumption that you personally would not be financially better off under a true communist model you further that into an assumption that a communist model cannot possibly provide a better society as a whole than a capitalist model.

As for Che. I never understood his hero status. The t-shirts are cliche.

Talking aboot assumptions, eh?

No, I wouldn't feel better in a Communist society (you know I like freedom and all) therefore I can quite positively say that not everyone will be happy....and that is not a reason why I believe Capitalism to be better...there are plenty others.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Yes!! Im a huge fan of Che!!

I did a project on him in High School and I loved it. He was an interesting man and I think (personaly) he was betrayed by Castro!

Viva la revolucion, Che!! Felices Cumpleaños, comandante! droolio

Wasn't he pretty much a murderer? 😑

Originally posted by Neo_Communist
Hey everyone, tomarrow is Che Guevara's B-day!!! 😄

Who cares? He is takeing a dirt nap right now after he got plugged by 10 bullets..and no one misses him.

''i know you've come to kill me, shoot coward, your only going to kill a man''

Happy b-day Che!

I feel so trendy! Yipeee..

Dumbasses.

Che would be spinning in his grave if he'd known everything he fought for would become a 20th century, meaningless, fashion statement.

That's what I don't understand about the people who wear T-shirts with his picture on them. I fell that, in his opinion, it would be like a man willing to carry a flag for which he isn't willing to die.

I WOULD LIKE TO REPEAT IT IS NOT CHE GUEVARAS BIRTHDAY TOMMORROW .....his Birthday is June 14th ...for all you people who for one or the other reason don't believe that he was a crazy ass terrorist.....

October 9th is his DeathDay ...... of course I would probably celebrate that much more likely.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
...for all you people who for one or the other reason don't believe that he was a crazy ass terrorist.....

So, you're saying that in 20 years, little kids will be running around with pictures of Bin Laden on their shirts?