How Well is Bush Doing?

Started by Lana13 pages

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Cause Lord knows Bush is the first ever president to ever tell a lie.. 😖

Guess what, atleast he didn't lie to the supreme court like our last president..

All the presidents have lied. Yeah, Clinton lied, but at least it wasn't over something that affected the entire country, like Bush's little war has. There's a big difference in lying over a personal matter and lying over a war.

And for the record, Bush lied to the Congress (because unless a war gets Congressional support, it is illegal), the ENTIRE US, the UN, and, well, the entire world. I daresay that's a bit worse.

it proves that Kerry wouldn't have been any better. he was trying to impress us New Englanders by lying, meaning he would lie to impress the country and the rest of the world.

Saratn? Think before you post.

Seriously.

-AC

Is there a single person in the Office of Management and Budget, the U.S. Treasury, the Congressional Budget Office, or the Federal Reserve who thinks the U.S., already drowning in red ink, has the resources to fight wars for decades?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Saratn? Think before you post.

Seriously.

-AC


and just shutup AC, seriously. "I don't care about the people or Bush"

If you don't care then why the hell do you whine so much? No-one wants to hear your nasal toned complaints about something you claim to not care about. You're just a whiner, and society has no place for the likes of you. So just make yourself more useful, and stop whining. It's not like you offer patriotic support like KidRock, alternative ideas like SpellJammer, or enlightening news on what's really going on like Deano. You are worthless to yourself, and America. And unless you don't care about that too, SpellJammer would suggest you change it.. Nobody wants to be a loser..

Ooooh, this is delicious.

Pot, meet kettle.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
and just shutup AC, seriously. "I don't care about the people or Bush"

If you don't care then why the hell do you whine so much? No-one wants to hear your nasal toned complaints about something you claim to not care about. You're just a whiner, and society has no place for the likes of you. So just make yourself more useful, and stop whining. It's not like you offer patriotic support like KidRock, alternative ideas like SpellJammer, or enlightening news on what's really going on like Deano. You are worthless to yourself, and America. And unless you don't care about that too, SpellJammer would suggest you change it.. Nobody wants to be a loser..

Uno: You don't care about liberals, right? Could have fooled me. You mention them in damn near every single post you make. I don't care about people or Bush, but I care about the fact that I have to live on this planet. A planet becoming increasingly more dangerous by Bush and his cronies.

Dos: KidRock offers patriotic support in the way of following whoever is in charge, regardless of what they do wrong. The fact that he supports Bush and is a blind, right-wing, non-thinking republican racist (albeit subliminally) therefore negates any serious comments he can make.

Three: I'm not American.

Four: Whoop.

-AC

Originally posted by Lana
Ooooh, this is delicious.

Pot, meet kettle.


How is SpellJammer a pot? Did he say "SpellJammer doesn't care about his country", no he did not. So your post was unnescarey and quite frankly, idiotic. You just want to get a word in cause you're an attention-whore. Guess what toots, do like normal people your age do and just put out..

Originally posted by Spelljammer
How is SpellJammer a pot? Did he say "SpellJammer doesn't care about his country", no he did not. So your post was unnescarey and quite frankly, idiotic. You just want to get a word in cause you're an attention-whore. Guess what toots, do like normal people your age do and just put out..

You were saying that AC is a whiner. You do NOTHING but whine about how the liberals have ruined this and the liberals have caused that. You're a bloody hypocrite. So yes, my post DID have a point, you're just too clueless and hardheaded to understand it.

Seriously. Get out from under your rock, learn something about how politics works, and quit being so goddamn stupid.

And btw, I really SHOULD report you for the flame you just made at me. But I'm going to be nice, I think.

SpellJammer doesn't always blame the liberals.

The war in Iraq is unjustified, not the liberal's fault.
The fillebuster is not the liberal's fault.
Catholiscm is not the liberal's fault.
Umm.. Hurricane Katerina was not the liberal's fault lol!

But seriously. 90% of the time it is. (5% being conservatives, the other 5% being dumb luck..) So that's why SpellJammer acknowledges it..

yea, like that's really a flame...i've seen a lot worse than that...

Where do you get that 90%? Or do I assume you got it from where you get everything else you say?

-AC

No. Most problems are caused by ignorance and blind faith.

How is trying to progress a bad thing?

It's not.

Seriously, your posts prove nothing but that you're a fool who believes anything the conservative right says, and that you know absolutely NOTHING about how politics and the American government works.

Originally posted by Lana
No. Most problems are caused by [b]ignorance and blind faith.
[/B]

amen

Originally posted by Saratn
yea, like that's really a flame...i've seen a lot worse than that...

Yeah, so have I. I've recieved much worse, too. I've been stalked and harassed all over the boards and through PMs. But that was still a flame, regardless; don't tell me what it is or isn't.

its all building up to one thing..a police state

Originally posted by Lana

How is trying to progress a bad thing?


It isn't. But our society is more liberal then ever.

More suicide rates.
Economy going in the toilot.
People are generaly more violant and less loving.
Diseases spreading faster then ever.
Even animals are feeling the effects of a low-morality and becoming less healthy.

WHAT PROGRESS! 🙄

thanx to the staged events of 9/11, things have gone radically down hill, just as they want it to.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
It isn't. But our society is more liberal then ever.

More suicide rates.
Economy going in the toilot.
People are generaly more violant and less loving.
Diseases spreading faster then ever.
Even animals are feeling the effects of a low-morality and becoming less healthy.

WHAT PROGRESS! 🙄

Are you one of those people who think things will get better instantly?

You should really compare the US to countries in Europe; we're downright conservative compared to most of them. Look up some stats about crime, drug use, rape, abortion, etc, in say.....the Netherlands, and compare them to stats from the US. Then you'll see how wrong you really are.

The economy is in the toilet, while we have a conservative in office. Under Clinton, a liberal, we had budget surpluses.

Habeas corpus is the greatest protection Americans have against a police state. Habeas corpus ensures that Americans can only be detained by law. They must be charged with offenses, given access to attorneys, and brought to trial. Habeas corpus prevents the despotic practice of picking up a person and holding him indefinitely.

President Bush claims the power to set aside habeas corpus and to dispense with warrants for arrest and with procedures that guarantee court appearance and trial without undue delay. Today in the US, the executive branch claims the power to arrest a citizen on its own initiative and hold the citizen indefinitely. Thus, Americans are no longer protected from arbitrary arrest and indefinite detention.

These new "seize and hold" powers strip the accused of the protective aspects of law and give reign to selectivity and arbitrariness. No warrant is required for arrest, no charges have to be presented before a judge, and no case has to be put before a jury. As the police are unaccountable, whoever is selected for arrest is at the mercy of arbitrariness.

The judiciary has to some extent defended habeas corpus against Bush's attack, but the protection that the principle offers against arbitrary seizure and detention has been breached. Whether courts can fully restore habeas corpus or whether it continues in weakened form or passes by the wayside remains to be determined.
Americans may be unaware of what it means to be stripped of the protection of habeas corpus, or they may think police authorities would never make a mistake or ever use their unbridled power against the innocent. Americans might think that the police state will only use its powers against terrorists or "enemy combatants."

But "terrorist" is an elastic and legally undefined category. When the President of the United States declares: "You are with us or against us," the police may perceive a terrorist in a dissenter from the government's policies. Political opponents may be regarded as "against us" and thereby fall in the suspect category. Or a police officer may simply have his eye on another man's attractive wife or wish to settle some old score. An enemy combatant might simply be an American who happens to be in a foreign country when the US invades. In times before our own when people were properly educated, they understood the injustices that caused the English Parliament to pass the Habeas Corpus Act of 1679 prohibiting the arbitrary powers that are now being claimed for the executive branch in the US.

The PATRIOT Act has given the police autonomous surveillance powers. These powers were not achieved without opposition. Civil libertarians opposed it. Bob Barr, the former US Representative who led the impeachment of President Clinton, fought to limit some of the worst features of the act. But the act still bristles with unconstitutional violations of the rights of citizens, and the newly created powers of government to spy on citizens has brought an end to privacy.

The prohibition against self-incrimination protects the accused from being tortured into confession. The innocent are no more immune to pain than the guilty. As Stalin's show trials demonstrated, even the most committed leaders of the Bolshevik revolution could be tortured into confessing to be counter-revolutionaries.

The prohibition against torture has been breached by the practice of plea bargaining, which replaces jury trials with negotiated self-incrimination, and by sentencing guidelines, which transfer sentencing discretion from judge to prosecutor. Plea bargaining is a form of psychological torture in which innocent and guilty alike give up their right to jury trial in order to reduce the number and severity of the charges that the prosecutor brings.

The prohibition against physical torture, however, held until the US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. As video, photographic, and testimonial evidence make clear, the US military has been torturing large numbers of people in its Iraq prisons and in its prison compound at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Most of the detainees were people picked up in the equivalent of KGB Stalin-era street sweeps. Having no idea who the detainees are and pressured to produce results, torture was applied to coerce confessions.

Everyone is disturbed about this barbaric and illegal practice except the Bush administration. In an amendment to a $440 billion defense budget bill last Wednesday, the US Senate voted 90 to 9 to ban "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" of anyone in US government custody. President Bush responded to the Senate's will by repeating his earlier threat to veto the bill. Allow me to torture, demands Bush of the Senate, or you will be guilty of delaying the military's budget during wartime. Bush is threatening the Senate with blame for the deaths of US soldiers who will die because they don't get their body armor or humvee armor in time.

It will be a short step from torturing detainees abroad to torturing the accused in US jails and prisons.

The attorney-client privilege, another great achievement, has been breached by the Lynne Stewart case. As the attorney for a terrorist, Stewart represented her client in ways disapproved by prosecutors. Stewart was indicted, tried, and convicted of providing material support to terrorists.

Stewart's indictment sends a message to attorneys not to represent too dutifully or aggressively clients who are unpopular or demonized. Initially, this category may be limited to terrorists. However, once the attorney-client privilege is breached, any attorney who gets too much in the way of a prosecutor's case may experience retribution. The intimidation factor can result in an attorney presenting a weak defense. It can even result in attorneys doing as the Benthamite US Department of Justice (sic) desires and helping to convict their client.

In the Anglo-American legal tradition, law is a shield of the accused. This is necessary in order to protect the innocent. The accused is innocent until he is proven guilty in an open court. There are no secret tribunals, no torture, and no show trials.

Outside the Anglo-American legal tradition, law is a weapon of the state. It may be used with careful restraint, as in Europe today, or it may be used to destroy opponents or rivals as in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

When the protective features of the law are removed, law becomes a weapon. Habeas corpus, due process, the attorney-client privilege, no crime without intent, and prohibitions against torture and ex post facto laws are the protective features that shield the accused. These protective features are being removed by zealotry in the "war against terrorism."

The damage terrorists can inflict pales in comparison to the loss of the civil liberties that protect us from the arbitrary power of law used as a weapon. The loss of law as Blackstone's shield of the innocent would be catastrophic. It would mean the end of America as a land of liberty.