On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
First, you can't number a debate when there were no numbers to begin with, that makes it hard.

Second, I don't understand why you think you're right for having reached the conclusions you have (based on your study of the bible and "gods" opinion of homosexuality) and thinking they're right too.

Third, is the "cherry-picking" a strawman argument for you, or for Nellinator?

Third(a) I didn't think you believed in left-wing christians.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Bah. It's easier than writing out whole sentences.

Wouldn't we all like to take the easier, less chosen path?

Originally posted by FeceMan
I said their reasoning was not incorrect. Not their opinion.

You'll forgive me if i don't recognize the difference between the two

Originally posted by FeceMan
Its designed for conservative Christians who believe that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong--so for Nellinator.

Thank you for the non-answer

Originally posted by FeceMan
I believe in them. I just feel they are misguided in their beliefs--though I'm sure they'd say the same about me, only with more terms like "intolerance" and "hate"--though some of them...get under my skin more than others.

I "believe in them....but they are misguided" So who is guiding them? Your version of GOD or theirs? As in, the version of GOD that really rules reality? Is it your GOD feceman, or theirs? Is Nellinator and JIA and Marchello correct, or are you? And even more important, are you willing to defend you position ? A position that places you in direct opposition to them? "Them" being people you agree with on one hand, but condemn on the other."?

Originally posted by FeceMan
I said their reasoning was not incorrect. Not their opinion.

So their reasoning is correct, but their opinion isn't, or both their opinion and reasoning is correct? Or both incorrect?

"Not Incorrect" = correct?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
So their reasoning is correct, but their opinion isn't, or both their opinion and reasoning is correct? Or both incorrect?

"Not Incorrect" = correct?

"Not incorrect" being like finding someone "not guilty" rather than innocent.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Wouldn't we all like to take the easier, less chosen path?

You'll forgive me if i don't recognize the difference between the two

Thank you for the non-answer

It's designed for conservative Christians who believe that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong--so for Nellinator.

I "believe in them....but they are misguided" So who is guiding them? Your version of GOD or theirs?

As in, the version of GOD that really rules reality? Is it your GOD feceman, or theirs?

Is Nellinator and JIA and Marchello correct, or are you?

And even more important, are you willing to defend you position ?

A position that places you in direct opposition to them? "Them" being people you agree with on one hand, but condemn on the other."?

Originally posted by Imperial Samurai
Actually I remember a similar debate in your thread where you stated that you didn't think anyone was really good, regardless of what they did. Am I so wrong? Or are you going to say that you actually do think people doing good things might be good?

So how does God justify that to the people who don't think it fair? In short, he doesn't. I question his parenting abilities if he doesn't care to clarify for his children. The fact sensible people can feel it isn't fair implies something lacking in his justification for it. And the whole "the fact he is happy to forgive a persons worst crimes if they say sorry" doesn't wash. The old get into heaven free card.

I mean my, if that isn't good enough for the human legal system I have to wonder about it being a basis behind the divine one. But really - being damned for nonbeliever. And lets face it - that is what we will be damned for. Not for any-other sin. Since asking for forgiveness is essentially slate cleaning the rest of the sins one can commit are rather meaningless. God will be leaving people behind because they didn't believe, or they believed wrong. Which, for some reason, just doesn't seem logical to me.

Or, alternatively - A certain Believer - "Can I work for you?"
God - "Hmmm. Says here you were a life long criminal known for committing fraud and scams that ruined many people and caused a lot of suffering. But then you found out you had terminal cancer and repented on your death bed. So yes, you're in. Even though there are plenty of Atheists and members of other religions who have done good things all their lives and expected nothing from me, I can't consider them for the position. Why? Because they didn't kowtow."

So... theoretically, is what I described above something that could very well happen, and continue to happen?

God: "Hmmm. Says here you were a life long criminal known for committing fraud and scams that ruined many people and caused a lot of suffering. But then you found out you had terminal cancer and repented on your death bed. So yes, you're in.

Even though there are plenty of atheists and members of other religions who have done good things all their lives and expected nothing from me, I can't consider them for the position. Why?

Because every man has fallen short of My glory--no matter how many good deeds he has done, he is not worthy. I have given salvation freely, salvation that has made you worthy of My glory. It cannot be earned, it cannot be bought, but it can--and will--be given upon request. Anyone, no matter his sins, will be forgiven and accepted by Me."

Wow...Feceman, first you say Homosexuality is not a sin, that it was mistranslated, now you say it is a sin ?

Make up your damn mind dude....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wow...Feceman, first you say Homosexuality is not a sin, that it was mistranslated, now you say it is a sin ?

Make up your damn mind dude....

Originally posted by FeceMan
You apparently are misinterpreting what I am saying. After all, it is only as of late I have been able to state with all confidence that the homosexual lifestyle is not a sin.

Feceman, like the Bible does, you are contradicting yourself again.

WHAT is your stance on the subject ?

I have stated my (most recent) stance before. I have not changed from that stance.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I have stated my (most recent) stance before. I have not changed from that stance.

Would you mind repeating it ?

No, it's not a sin.

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for GOD IS LOVE." 1John 4:8-9

Let's set the record straight. Christianity teaches that God loves everyone. The statement, "God hates ****" is a lie. The famous verse, John 3:16, which could be considered the cornerstone of our faith, starts off "For God so loved the world.. ." Said by Jesus

But, the Bible also teaches that God hates sin. And the act of homosexuality is considered to be a sin in the Old Testament as well as the New (see 1 Cor. 6:9 or Rom. 1:26-27). .......Said by heretic Paul...

* hello, ms.debbiejo... i beg to disagree...

"Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
I Corinthians 6:9-10

* read between the lines, my friend... the issue is not the person but the ACT itself... and to prove that the issue of this verse is the act and NOT the person, once that person leaves this act, what will happen? let us continue...

"And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."
I Corinthians 6:11

* they were washed, sanctified and justified... in other words, they are worthy of salvation...

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due."
Romans 1:26-27

* this verse also tells us that the issue is the act, NOT the person itself... being a homosexual is NOT a sin, but homosexual acts are...

"This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4

* homosexuals are also human beings, and God desires all human beings to be saved... the Bible did NOT exclude homosexuals... 😉

Of course, she will now accuse of being a member of Paulianity and tell you how he is a heretic and so and so forth. Her usual troll and baseless accusations against Paul will follow and claims of contradictions, eventually leading to her saying that Hell does not exist and that it was copied from other religions. Of course, she will never use the Bible to prove that Sheol is not use the Bible to disprove the concept of hell because we have already showed her how it supports the concept entirely. But that's how it is.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for GOD IS LOVE." 1John 4:8-9

Let's set the record straight. Christianity teaches that God loves everyone. The statement, "God hates ****" is a lie. The famous verse, John 3:16, which could be considered the cornerstone of our faith, starts off [B]"For God so loved the world.. ." Said by Jesus

But, the Bible also teaches that God hates sin. And the act of homosexuality is considered to be a sin in the Old Testament as well as the New (see 1 Cor. 6:9 or Rom. 1:26-27). .......Said by heretic Paul... [/B]

* the statement, "God is love", does not mean that God does not know how to get angry, sad or hate or anything similar to that...

* God is wiser than what you think He is, my friend... sin is the downfall of humans but is can also be a ticket to salvation...

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to them that love him."
James 1:12

* endure temptations and you will receive the crown of life...

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
Matthew 6:14-15

* learn to forgive and you will be forgiven...

"Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom, the Lord will not reckon sin."
Romans 4:6-8

* all's well, end well... 😉

Originally posted by Nellinator
Of course, she will now accuse of being a member of Paulianity and tell you how he is a heretic and so and so forth. Her usual troll and baseless accusations against Paul will follow and claims of contradictions, eventually leading to her saying that Hell does not exist and that it was copied from other religions. Of course, she will never use the Bible to prove that Sheol is not use the Bible to disprove the concept of hell because we have already showed her how it supports the concept entirely. But that's how it is.

* yes, and i will try to correct that notion... Saint Paul is arguably the greatest apostle of Christ... he was bestowed great wisdom by God that even the pillars (Saint Peter, Saint John and Saint James) gave him (with Saint Barnabas) the right hands of fellowship... and even Saint Peter himself admitted that Saint Paul's epistles are very hard to be understood because of the vast knowledge given to him by God... 😉

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, it's not a sin.

Well then why can't you argue that point with the other christians who do think it's a sin?

Originally posted by Nellinator
Of course, she will now accuse of being a member of Paulianity and tell you how he is a heretic and so and so forth. Her usual troll and baseless accusations against Paul will follow and claims of contradictions, eventually leading to her saying that Hell does not exist and that it was copied from other religions. Of course, she will never use the Bible to prove that Sheol is not use the Bible to disprove the concept of hell because we have already showed her how it supports the concept entirely. But that's how it is.

I would venture to say that the multitude today would define "sin" as being "an offense to God." Some would even argue that it's an action that directly damns you to Hell. Sin has been given an enormous amount of attention in most religious practices, and it is the deciding factor in deciding the "goodness" of others. Needless to say, it is definitely not the same word as the original meaning would suggest.

However, the biggest problem for "sin" in the modern world has not come from its definition, but it's come from what is considered a sin. The problems always arise when the subject of sinful nature comes about. How do you tell what a sin is? Or better, how can you tell what will "stray one from their path?" Even if you don't look at it as a hellworthy offense (which, by the way, I do not), you can still put some value towards sin as being something that can block one's path to god if you want to put it that way.

So - who decides - and how - what a sin is?

The answer, as always, seems more pragmatic than one might assume.

It seems to me that a sin is anything that can pose negativity on one's self or someone else. This could mean different things to different people. Original sin, for those who don’t know about it, is the theological concept of an original transgression against God by Man at the time of the Fall, which constitutes an inheritance of sinfulness for all subsequent generations of humanity. This view was first proposed by the Christian theologian Augustine of Hippo in the 4th or 5th Century, Not Jesus,who, sufficed to say, didn’t think highly of humanity, and, effectively, considered us all condemned to Hell if we didn’t undergo baptism (which ritually “washed” away our sins).

As for hell, I've already pointed out numerous times that itis not a real place, but invented by the Roman Catholic church. Heaven is more inlightenment and being one with the way god would be..ie goodness. As for where we all go when we die? We all go back to where we came from, just as scripture says...OH, and.....Paul is a heretic, yes.. 😉

Originally posted by debbiejo
So - who decides - and how - what a sin is?

* how about... the word of God in the Bible? the Christians in the Bible?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
I John 3:4

* sin, according to Saint John in the Bible, is the transgression of the law of God...

Originally posted by debbiejo
As for hell, I've already pointed out numerous times that itis not a real place, but invented by the Roman Catholic church.

* it is a place, it is real, and it was said by Christ in the Bible...

"But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, You fool! shall be liable to the hell of fire."
Matthew 5:22

* it was not invented by the Catholics... however, before Pope John Paul II died, he denied the existence of heaven and hell... quite funny, denying something written in the Bible, whilst accepting something not written like the purgatory...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Heaven is more inlightenment and being one with the way god would be..ie goodness.

* heaven is a place where God and Christ promised for those who will be saved...

"In hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;"
Titus 1:2

"In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."
John 14:2-3

Originally posted by debbiejo
As for where we all go when we die? We all go back to where we came from, just as scripture says...

* just as the Scripture says? yet you don't believe the existence of heaven and hell just as the Scripture says? you've got double-standards, my friend...

Originally posted by debbiejo
OH, and.....Paul is a heretic, yes.. 😉

* nope, he is not...

"And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
Speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures."
II Peter 3:15-16

* ignorant and unstable persons twist the Scriptures as well as Saint Paul's epistles... Saint Paul is a great apostle bestowed with the wisdom of God... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* how about... the word of God in the Bible? the Christians in the Bible?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
I John 3:4

* sin, according to Saint John in the Bible, is the transgression of the law of God...

* it is a place, it is real, and it was said by Christ in the Bible...

"But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, You fool! shall be liable to the hell of fire."
Matthew 5:22

* it was not invented by the Catholics... however, before Pope John Paul II died, he denied the existence of heaven and hell... quite funny, denying something written in the Bible, whilst accepting something not written like the purgatory...

* heaven is a place where God and Christ promised for those who will be saved...

"In hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;"
Titus 1:2

"In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."
John 14:2-3

* just as the Scripture says? yet you don't believe the existence of heaven and hell just as the Scripture says? you've got double-standards, my friend...

* nope, he is not...

"And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
Speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures."
II Peter 3:15-16

* ignorant and unstable persons twist the Scriptures as well as Saint Paul's epistles... Saint Paul is a great apostle bestowed with the wisdom of God... 😉