On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Started by inimalist274 pages
Originally posted by inimalist
The full research article is available free online (BADASS!!) here:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0407998102v1

not to just quote myself and go on a post spree, but I just realized something that might have been overlooked in the study, and might be a sign of the latent male bias of science (still unfortunately), maybe activation in these areas of women isn't a matter of sexual arousal, but is communicating something else of a sexual nature? It's really nice to think that all women are a little bit bi, but how chauvinistic is it to say that similar neuronal response in the hypothalamus of women means that straight women, who scored the exact same on the Kinsey test as the straight men (also showing a possible validity error in the scale too), are sexually attracted to women?

lol /rant

😂

Originally posted by inimalist
As far as someone's response changing over time as they "become gay", that would require more research, though there is potential... given that is how sexuality works.

I agree and my "pheromones" theory is but just one way I have thought of to measure a "change" in sexual orientation. That may be cascades of ways to test what REAL heterosexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality is about.

Originally posted by inimalist
Which sort of brings up my caution in interpreting these results. Many things that seem intuitive to think about fall apart when dealing with neurology. Each person's brain is unique, and how unique brains have to be to produce different changes is a controversial question to say the least, and as queeq alluded to in his post above, it is something that our current technology is inept at even tackling. A very important note about the research is that each participant scored as either a 0 or a 6 on a 0-6 scale of heterosexuality-homosexuality. What does that mean, I don't know, other than to say it shows some discrepancy in the most extreme of cases.

Agreed. This whole pheromone thing may not play very much of a role at all as it is possible that one's sexuality dictates the reaction their brain makes rather than other way around. Indeed, not much credence has been given to how much of a role pheromones really play on a larger behavioral scale.

I REALLY want to test my theory out and I may not be thinking outside of the box enough...meaning maybe we don't have to follow people around for 20 years and test their brain's response as the test subjects sexual orientation "changes" over time. The could be another way to test for the same thing without having to take the difficult approach I have suggested. Who knows, maybe this god-like AI we are supposed to give birth to in the next 30 or 40 years will be able to answer it for us.

"Mom's Genetics Could Produce Gay Sons" Ker Than

The arrangement of a mother's genes could affect the sexual orientation of her son, according to a new study.

The finding, detailed in the February issue of the journal Human Genetics, adds fuel to the decade-long debate about whether so-called "gay genes" might exist.

The researchers examined a phenomenon called "X chromosome inactivation" in 97 mothers of gay sons and 103 mothers whose sons were not gay.

X and Y

Chromosomes are large thread-like molecules that contain an organism's genetic instructions. Humans have 23 chromosome pairs. The X chromosome is one of two sex chromosomes in mammals; the other is the Y chromosome. Females have two X chromosomes and no Ys, while males have one X and one Y.

Even though women have two X chromosomes, only one is functional because the other is inactivated through a process called "methylation."

Big Difference

Normally, X chromosome inactivation occurs at random: half of the cells in a woman's body will have one X chromosome inactivated, while the other half inactivates the other chromosome.

However, when the researchers in the current study examined cells from the 42 mothers who had at least two gay sons, they found that about a quarter of the women in this group showed something different.

"Every single cell that we looked at in these women inactivated the same X chromosome," Bocklandt told LiveScience. "That's highly unusual."

In contrast, only 4 percent of mothers with no gay sons and 13 percent of those with just one gay son showed this type of extreme skewing.

Bocklandt thinks this suggest that a mother's X chromosomes partly influences whether her son is gay or not.

"We think that there are one or more genes on the X chromosome that have an effect on the sexual orientation of the sons of these mothers, as well as an effect on the cells we were looking at," Bocklandt said.

Other Chromosomes Implicated

Bocklandt was also involved in an earlier study that looked at the entire human genome of men who had two or more gay brothers. The researchers found identical stretches of DNA on three chromosomes—7, 8 and 10—that were shared by about 60 percent of the gay brothers in the study.

That study also found mothers to have an unusually large role in their son's sexual orientation: the region on chromosome 10 correlated with homosexuality only if it was inherited from the mother.

The results from these two studies suggest that there are multiple genetic factors involved in determining a person's sexual orientation and that it might vary depending on the person.

"We think that there are going to be some gay men who are X chromosome gay men and some who are chromosome 7 gay men or chromosome 10 gay men or some combination," Bocklandt said in a telephone interview.

Most researchers now think that there is no single gay gene that controls whether a person is homosexual or not. Rather, it's the influence of multiple genes, combined with biological influences, which ultimately determine whether a person is gay.

A Touchy Subject

Research into the genetics of sexual orientation is controversial. Religious leaders who believe that sexual orientation is a choice argue that such research is an attempt to legitimize homosexuality; others worry that a detailed knowledge of the genetics underlying homosexuality will open the door to genetic engineering that prevents it.

But Bocklandt doesn't think these concerns should prevent scientists from asking the basic question of whether homosexuality has an underlying genetic component to it or not.

"I have no doubt that at some point we'll be able to manipulate all sorts of aspects of our personality and physical appearance," Bocklandt said. "I think if there's ever a time when we can make these changes for sexual orientation, then we will also be able to do it for intelligence or musical skills or certain physical characteristics—but whether or not these things are allowed to happen is something that society as a whole has to decide. It's not a scientific question."

Point is?

Its further evidence for a strong "biological determinist" (sigh language) view of sexuality. I think it is more relevant to what myself and dadudemon were talking about than you and I, as gene expression and neuroplasticity is a chicken and egg dance. Genes can require certain inputs to express, or express over time, or turn on and off, etc. I can't say anything about what PoE posted, so I wont even speculate on how those genes express.

None of the correlations in twin or genetic studies are 1. Sexual orientation is not Huntington's disease, it is influenced by many factors that are not specifically "genes". Its not as simple as black or white, human behaviour is not easy to categorize as being biological or cultural or "choice".

Originally posted by inimalist
Its further evidence for a strong "biological determinist" (sigh language) view of sexuality. I think it is more relevant to what myself and dadudemon were talking about than you and I, as gene expression and neuroplasticity is a chicken and egg dance.

This in particular:

"Mom's Genetics Could Produce Gay Sons" Ker Than

Other Chromosomes Implicated

Bocklandt was also involved in an earlier study that looked at the entire human genome of men who had two or more gay brothers. The researchers found identical stretches of DNA on three chromosomes—7, 8 and 10—that were shared by about 60 percent of the gay brothers in the study.

That study also found mothers to have an unusually large role in their son's sexual orientation: the region on chromosome 10 correlated with homosexuality only if it was inherited from the mother.

The results from these two studies suggest that there are multiple genetic factors involved in determining a person's sexual orientation and that it might vary depending on the person.

"We think that there are going to be some gay men who are X chromosome gay men and some who are chromosome 7 gay men or chromosome 10 gay men or some combination," Bocklandt said in a telephone interview.

Most researchers now think that there is no single gay gene that controls whether a person is homosexual or not. Rather, it's the influence of multiple genes, combined with biological influences, which ultimately determine whether a person is gay.

In other words: we don't know. 😉

No basically, its a combination of both.

There is no gene that can determine sexuality

Originally posted by Alliance
No basically, its a combination of both.

There is no gene that can determine sexuality

prove it

The proof is littered throughout thsi thread and I will not fall into the endless cycle of posts that are required for blithering idiots to regurgitate popularizations of sketchy science.

Originally posted by Alliance
The proof is littered throughout thsi thread and I will not fall into the endless cycle of posts that are required for blithering idiots to regurgitate popularizations of sketchy science.
k w/e i was just kiddin lol. it doesnt really matter that much to me, because i dont hate gays with a passion like most christians

You hate them without a passion? 😉

Originally posted by Alliance
The proof is littered throughout thsi thread and I will not fall into the endless cycle of posts that are required for blithering idiots to regurgitate popularizations of sketchy science.

LOL...true...if someone really wants to know, then they could read this whole thread and find their answer and THEN read the GDF homosexuality thread. I know there is some good information in there posted by Adam Poe in the last half year alone.

Originally posted by queeq
You hate them without a passion? 😉

I think he meant to say he is gay with a passion unlike most Christians.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
k w/e i was just kiddin lol. it doesnt really matter that much to me, because i dont hate gays with a passion like most christians

Wait...does that mean you are Christian now?

Originally posted by queeq
You hate them without a passion? 😉
👆 that is correct

Originally posted by Quark_666
Wait...does that mean you are Christian now?
no, if i was i wouldnt have the desire to punch a baby sometimes.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I think he meant to say he is gay with a passion unlike most Christians.

that was a dick move 😉

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think he meant to say he is gay with a passion unlike most Christians.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
that was a dick move 😉

You know a lot about dick and how it moves, don't you? 😖hifty: