Originally posted by BlackC@
I don't think being gay is a sin. Homosexuals don't choose to be gay, they can't be sinning from doing something that is against their free will.
1) The choice issue is not a scientific fact. It is still debated by psychologists. If you are referring to physiological differences, the subjects studied were post mortem and as such no conclusive evidence can be obtained as to whether the brain was that way and so behavior followed, or whether the behavior occurred and so the brain formed that way. Behavior impacts the brain's physiological development. If you retard an aspect of development then the shape of the brain changes as well. Given time any behavior may alter the physiology of the brain. The most that can be stated is that there may be a possible predisposition.
2) Free will does not mean that the resulting consequence is null. It just means that you can choose to do the act or not.
However, since phsychology is such a limited practice... some other things are apparent, form my experiences in life:
1. Children can realize their homosexuality without any preconcieved notion of homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality usually is personally discovered around the same time as all children become sexually conscious (early puberty)
3. Homosexuality is not limited to H. spaiens sapiens
These factors suggest that at least some aspect of homosexuality can be based in genetic determinism.
Originally posted by Alliance
However, since phsychology is such a limited practice... some other things are apparent, form my experiences in life:1. Children can realize their homosexuality without any preconcieved notion of homosexuality.
I have to ask for proof of this. If a child behaves in a certain manner do people treat him as homosexual, or as though he might become homosexual? If so then self-fulfilling prophecy or priming may have occured to lead up to the "realization" of homosexuality. Experience plays too strong a role prior to this "realization." Was the person limited in exposure in some way? Perhaps overexposed in some way? I am not refering to homosexuals, but to men, women, relationships, etc. Parental influence is too strong to rule out.
2. Homosexuality usually is personally discovered around the same time as all children become sexually conscious (early puberty)
exposure to varying stimuli may effect this, without a detailed history this would be impossible to prove or disprove.
3. Homosexuality is not limited to H. spaiens sapiens
True. History of such cases would be interesting to look over. I would assume that a study raising a given ape as homosexual and then allowing access to a female would be considered unethical. Also, various other studies would likely be considered unethical as well. Even doing the studies would probably result in negative publicity for any given school, and thus would likely be frowned upon.
These factors suggest that at least some aspect of homosexuality can be based in genetic determinism.
I agree there is perhaps some level of predisposition towards homosexuality. As far as that meaning it would not be a sin due to this possibility, I would have to say that I'm all for the argument. I have a predisposition to want a number of women in bed with me, and if that's all it takes to make something not a sin, then I wish it were so 😉
I have to admit, I have not read of any study supporting or refuting your claims. As such I am skeptical of them. If the genetic predisposition is there, it is a genetic mistake. Given this I would have to assume that, since the mistake lowers the probability of reproduction, it would be a near impossible for these individuals to maintain as large a population as exists. This leads to a probability that a large number of homosexuals are probably choosing the lifestyle, even if some are predisposed to it.
What do you mean by psychology being a "limited practice"? I am unsure of your meaning here.
The deterministic aspect of sexuality does not alter the concrete definiton of sin. If homosexuality is viewed as genetically determined, people are more sympathetic and more willing to grant homosexuals rights that if it is viewed as a lifestyle choice.
This intern has an effect on how willing people are to label it a sin.
According to Christianity homosexuality is a sin
Leviticus:
Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22
If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
To an athiest like me homosexuality is not a sin...
This topic can go on and on its one of those topics that never comes to a conclusion due to three parties fighting it out, You have the anti gay party, the gay supporter party, and the gay party themselves. Now are days gays are given more freedom and the the act of homosexuality is downplayed in fact gays are portrayed as cool fun loving guys with a great sense of fashion and an extravagant lifestyle this in turn makes people question perhaps what they do is not so bad. The big question (and forgive me for being so frank) is do straight people find it wrong and sinful for a man to put his penis and penetrate another mans anus normal?
Now i haven't stated my views on what i think of the act of homosexuality and i do not wish to either, so it would be much appreciated if any of the feuding parties don't take offense to any of my above statement.
Originally posted by debbiejo
According to scripture one sin is no worse than another........Including gluttony........hmmmmm
While this may be true, the commandments that govern them seem to have some being more important than others. Given this, from a Biblical stance, sins may all be equal but the commandments are not. So, breaking one commandment could be punished more harshly than another?
Matthew 22:36-39
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Originally posted by RegretIn quoting only 2 of the commandments, do not make them new at all....The first 4 of the 10 commandements are how to love god
While this may be true, the commandments that govern them seem to have some being more important than others. Given this, from a Biblical stance, sins may all be equal but the commandments are not. So, breaking one commandment could be punished more harshly than another?Matthew 22:36-39
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
the last 6 are how we should love man.
All in alll there are 10.....oh, and btw they were never done away with at the cross as some believe.
Originally posted by debbiejo
In quoting only 2 of the commandments, do not make them new at all....The first 4 of the 10 commandements are how to love godthe last 6 are how we should love man.
All in alll there are 10.....oh, and btw they were never done away with at the cross as some believe.
Don't worry about it. The bible says the Mosaic Law was made so we would see how we all fall short. We can't say we do the commandments because then we all would be liars.