Originally posted by LizzyT123I've just been flamed by a 14 year old girl. 😆
Led Zeppelin were not posers! Do you EVEN KNOW what a poser is? Gosh, stupid people like you piss me off so badly. Led Zeppelin was and is not posing as anything! Sure, they could have been a bit egotistical, or narcisstic, but they are deffinetly not posers. Dumbass.
Yeah... Saying that all mainstream bands are posing is just stupid. One of the reasons that they're mainstream is that they had enough talent to build a fanbase that liked their music large enough to be recognized.
It's like saying "All famous authors, poets, and artists are posers." Was Shakespeare a poser? How about ol' Pablo? Sappho? Of course not!
However, people who are famous in music only because they are famous for something completely different (Hilary Duff/Lindsey Lohan) and for NOTHING AT ALL but being rich and almost kind of remotly attractive (PARIS F**KING HILTON!!!) are the true posers.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI look at it this way. Music is an industry. For these people, music is the only job they have in most cases. Despite this fact, for some reason, people tend to believe that the only kind of good musicians are the ones who don't care at all about money, and only about their music. Now of course any decent musician does care about their music first and foremost, but any musician with an album out that gets distributed and sold is obviously not in it strictly for the music, but is also trying to make a living, or maybe just achieve fame and recognition.
Sell out isn't useless, it's just used wrong.-AC
Personally.. I don't see anything wrong with people wanting to be big.. but for some reason if a musician at all hints at this desire than they're a "sellout." I just think it's useless. Why is it that all of a sudden to be a decent artist you have to take a vow of poverty?
That, Afro, is the wrong use of sell out which is what I spoke of.
Selling out is selling out only when, as I said before, a person does something that contradicts an early belief, stand point or moral value in exchange for an easy way out. Be it quick fame or fortune.
I recognise that these people don't OWE it to me to not sell out. At the same time I don't owe it to them to stick by them if they choose to do that. Selling out to me, isn't about wanting to be big. The Darkness do, Foo Fighters do, even Queen did. The point is, they had a goal: To be huge bands. Not a problem in the slightest.
The only problem I have is when you'll do ANYTHING, including whore yourself, to achieve that. The Darkness want world domination but they want it on their own terms or not at all. They're not gonna sell out to get it.
I respect that it's their job also, hence why I pay for the music. Tool do their job, they needn't go on TRL or plaster themselves everywhere. They, as much as I hate to say it, don't owe it to me not to do that though. If they did, I would be quite shattered, because Tool are special to me, but they don't owe it to me not to do that. Thankfully it's a near impossibility. But I agree, nothing wrong with wanting to be big. It's just when it's about being big at any cost. A la H.I.M, who bent over and took it up the anus from Bam Margera just so they could achieve success in America.
Also, let's stop calling Led Zep, posers. Shall we? Good.
-AC
Hmm.. I agree with that description. I'm still not fond of the term but I can see how that is "selling out."
Though I can also see how some are genuinely "posers." I just think such terms are really irrelevant in the long run.. and one can be a "poser" or even a "sell out" and make good music, can't they? For example: Common.
To me music is about honesty, so no. Brandon Boyd has completely lost my respect. I don't deny his talent, but he's lost my respect.
However, I won't stop listening to Incubus because that would be disrespecting 4 other members for Brandon's greed. Nine Inch Nails however, is only Trent Reznor. So when he sold himself out and subsequently brought it to light that his best album was probably a fluke more than anything, I just stopped bothering with him and his music.
Most of the older mainstream hip pop MCs you see today, did actually have half decent to good debut albums. Eminem's Slim Shady LP was incredible (not technically a debut), I personally found Xzibit's debut to be really good also. It's only once these people realise how much money they can make by catering so disgustingly to the masses, that they go downhill. Eminem went from Brain Damage to Mockingbird. Xzibit went from Paparazzi to Hey Now or whatever that shit is. You mentioned in the other thread that you own two Ludacris albums. His first album wasn't shit. It was no MF Doom album, haha. But it wasn't shit in my opinion. It wasn't underground, it wasn't overly mainstream. It was someone putting out music. As soon as he caught a whiff of the money he could make, like almost every other mainstream MC, he sold himself out. Busta Rhymes, the man once known as a cohort of A Tribe Called Quest, now reduced himself to rhyming with The Pussycat Dolls.
I have no time for that. If you are gonna make music, make it honest or don't complain when people turn on you. You don't owe us not to sell out, but we don't owe you to stick around if you do. It works both ways.
-AC
Yeah I see what you're saying. I agree that those artists sold out, and I do think it turned out bad for their music, but what do you have to say about my Common example? I saw someone on here once post that when he appears in commercials and shit like that, he's clearly going against what he rapped about on I Used To Love HER. Now that I think of it, that's completely true. That would make him a sell out. However, I still think Be is a good album.
The flip side of that would be pop artists like Britney Spears and The Backstreet Boys. Obviously very commercial and poppy from the beginning, so really I don't think they "sold out" I just think they suck.
My main point is: Selling out doesn't necessarily mean making shit music and making shit music doesn't necessarily mean selling out. Personally, I just focus on whether or not the music is good. I try to leave out their image and whether they're a "poser" or a "sell out" as much as I can, though I do get caught up in it from time to time.
Yeah, a "good" album. Common produced excellent hip hop, now it's way below what he used to be capable of because of that.
Selling out means dishonest music, which is shit music to me. You could make the catchiest mainstream rock song there is, but if it contradicts what you've been standing for the whole time and you're only doing it for the sake of, then that's shit.
Selling out isn't a common occurance in the bands I listen to, so I have no cause to use it really. I just know where it applies.
-AC
I don't think his music was effected by him appearing in commercials, honestly. Artists evolve. He's changed his sound several times.. Electric Circus was the furthest away from Ressurection you could possibly get, and then with Be he took a few steps backwards and it sounds a little more like his older stuff besides his flow.
I can see how you'd argue his music isn't as good, though it's still great to me.. but that I'm just saying that i don't think him "selling out" (appearing in ads) really effected it much.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not sure if I can take you seriously when you go from claiming that Lostprophets are a great live band with killer songs to "The Darkness are cock-rock" which they're not. Nor are they underwhelming live. They can perform anywhere and more or less own the crowd. I've seen them perform in HMV and play as if they were performing at Woodstock. That's the mark of a great band. Performing with all you have regardless of where it is. They're not posing as anything. They're only "posing" to idiots who feel the need to attach a tag to everything.-AC
Seen The Darkness four times. Everytime I have seen them (Reading, A Virgin Megastore performance, not HMV though, they may be brilliant there, Brixton Academy, and the Electric Ballroom, Camden) and was seriously underwhelmed by there performances. It was more like a cabaret act.
However I agree with pretty much everything else you have said.