Choices or Forces?

Started by Shakyamunison3 pages

I just want to see you change your avatar again.

why do idiot little guys ALWAYS follow me around like some new species of demented little pilot fish? and, btw, are you gay "shaky" on the water lilly? not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just that if you are, i would expect you to appreciate the fact that i am not. so why don't you give me a break and go harrass someone who IS on your particular wavelength, eh!

Originally posted by jOHN_Anderton
why do idiot little guys ALWAYS follow me around like some new species of demented little pilot fish? and, btw, are you gay "shaky" on the water lilly? not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just that if you are, i would expect you to appreciate the fact that i am not. so why don't you give me a break and go harrass someone who IS on your particular wavelength, eh!

You know you are going to get banded for stuff like that.

I am not gay, not like there is anything wrong with that. I know some people who are gay and I seem to get along fine with them.

The flower is a lotus flower. I am a Buddhist.

I thought it was a good trick changing your avatar like that, but don't get mad, there is no reason to get mad.

I find your actions in the forum interesting, and no, you can not get me mad, ever.

😄

Ooooh. Boood izm!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! So, that makes yoooo a Bud-ist! Or do yooo prefer, a Boood-isht? HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hey Bud, I'm TRYING to get banned! Unlike some pathetic fool who's spent enough time here to actually post TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED times, most of which are a WASTE of time I'm sure, at least for the BRIEF time I've been here I've posted brilliantly. Not that you or most of your illiterate buds can even appreciate what I've posted, because quite frankly, you can't. But i do know that in spite of this, whether i post again or never again, my general influence here has already made this little infinitessimally tiny insignificant place a much better place than it was before I arrived.

Now, be honest Bud:

You know that.

I know that.

And the American people know that.

(Bob Dole impression)

Originally posted by jOHN_Anderton
Ooooh. Boood izm!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! So, that makes yoooo a Bud-ist! Or do yooo prefer, a Boood-isht? HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hey Bud, I'm TRYING to get banned! Unlike some pathetic fool who's spent enough time here to actually post TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED times, most of which are a WASTE of time I'm sure, at least for the BRIEF time I've been here I've posted brilliantly. Not that you or most of your illiterate buds can even appreciate what I've posted, because quite frankly, you can't. But i do know that in spite of this, whether i post again or never again, my general influence here has already made this little infinitessimally tiny insignificant place a much better place than it was before I arrived.

Now, be honest Bud:

You know that.

I know that.

And the American people know that.

(Bob Dole impression)


I know what you are doing here. You are trying to meet girls. I hope you find what you are looking for. I am sorry that you have such a poor image of yourself that you have to boast. I will leave you alone. 😄

Hey, Johnny, don't get too big a head, you might topple over any moment. Just remember that egoism and arrogance is the root cause of all suffering.

Good wishes to you, may the Buddha in you come to the surface quick enough.

what a bunch of knuckleheads.

Wooooooo...interesting talk about forces and choices....

Originally posted by Wonderer
Hey, Johnny, don't get too big a head, you might topple over any moment. Just remember that egoism and arrogance is the root cause of all suffering.

Good wishes to you, may the Buddha in you come to the surface quick enough.


Then perhaps it' s time to reconsider your point of view In defence of Arrogance?

Originally posted by Storm
Then perhaps it' s time to reconsider your point of view In defence of Arrogance?

🤨

Perhaps there are times when we have a choice and times when we are subject to the rolling ball of determinism ...

horse

this smilie was too cute not to include in a post somewhere!!

Adding on to my post. There are times when we can go on and times when we can't.

If we are going to take philosophy out of the abstract an into every day life then I think we need to be more specific about what we mean when we say do we have freewill or is everything predetermined (i.e. force). This is a very important issue. Ultimately, if we cannot define how we are free, then we cannot have moral responsibility. This, surely, is an afront to common sense.So I put to you this:

What is freewill?

If freewill can be defined, then we can define in what sense we are able to make choices.

war

What is free will ? Here is what I think:

There are things that can be exactly determined in the universe, like physical sciences for example, others can´t be determined exactly, like human behavior(when you try to judge many individuals at the same time, and can only be dealt statistically, like stock market, opinions research, etc). Phenomena like human consciousness, and human ability to choose can´t be judged or predicted. I mean there is no way to write a set of rules on a paper that will predict what an individual will do, in other terms, a persons behavior is unpredictable, logic and rules are not enough to predict it. If rules are not enough to predict the behavior of a system, then the system acts beyond the rules.

To reinforce the idea that the ability to make choices is not something that can be defined by rules, there is a mathematician that tried to define mathematically what choice is, he couldn´t do that. More formally he tried to create a mathematical function that choose "ramdonly" one element of a given set.

There is computer programs that "choose" things too(like "ramdom" buttoms that exists in many programs used when you don´t want to choose something by ourself), what can lead one to think that choice can be defined matemathically, but it is not true. Those programs do not "choose" exactly, they are based on other predictable processes that the user of the programs is not aware of, but its always possible to predict what element a "ramdom" button will choose if you know the process involved.

Originally posted by Storm
Then perhaps it' s time to reconsider your point of view In defence of Arrogance?

Well, you might have noticed that I have changed completely. I have become a Buddhist. I am now without a self and I've learnt to have compassion for others.

At the risk of sounding tedious .... here are some of my opinions ...

Choice cannot occur if it is beyond one's control to choose.

how an individual responds in terms of interpreting the event is within his or her control

Habitual behaviour and action is not choice

Habitual behaviour is behaviour that is done without thought. It is behaviour and action that an individual would do automatically, without careful consideration. One can choose to change habitual behaviour, but habitual behaviour in itself is not choice.

Choice can be power in itself. No matter what external circumstances exist, an individual can still choose how to interpret these experiences. It is in how one interprets these experiences that there exists the option to choose. We can deliberate upon how we perceive an event and then consciously choose the manner in which we interpret an event. By doing this we can go beyond habitual behaviour and action and exercise freewill.

True freedom of choice is a particular type of choice.

Choice must be made in a particular frame of mind. One must will a choice.

Actions and behaviours in and of themselves have no value. An action or behaviour is neither good nor bad, it is the will behind the action or behaviour that is value laden.

One has the freedom to will, however, to make a choice without awareness is not to make a choice at all. One must deliberate and consciously choose.

Consciously choosing means being aware that there are many and varied options in the manner in which one interprets an event.

A little of both.

I also think it can be both. ^

We create our own choices - even if we chose not to chose, we have already made a choice of not choosing.

This is "free-will" according to Buddhism: As everything is relative, interdependant and conditional, nothing is absolute, nothing is completely free and detached from everything else, not even the idea of free-will. So, free-will, like everything else, is also just relatively free. We can make choices, but they are still conditioned and dependent on other factors.