Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Obi-Wan is not experienced on fighting more then one opponent melee style. Plus with four and Obi only has one lightsaber, he'll have to block one and then another would hit him from behind.
Obviously you've never sparred with four opponents. It's DAMN hard for four people with normal staffs to cohesively mesh and attack a single decent opponent. Tack on the Force, make the staffs electrical and give the opponent a lightsaber... the Magnaguards couldn't attack him more than two at a time anyways, really. If all four attacked he could leap over one set and find himself behind them, slash... One's down. His options are more than they're options, and one for one, he's superior to any of them.
Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Grievous took on 5 Jedis are once and won. Add 2 magnadroids and Grievous is killing them. During the Clone War he was the most feared face to see on the battlefield.
Grievious AMBUSHED and killed five jedi. He did not fight them in a prolonged even battle. And it was his first appearance; he had the element of surprise. He had no such element in ROTS, and Obi PWNED his ass.
Obi-Wan managed to defeat Grievous because Obi-Wan is experienced in fighting opponents like Grievous and grew stronger for the war. His form is perfect for fighting Grievous and the reflexes of an IG-100 is as fast as a Jedi can move and they would already be turned around ready for battle. Obi and Ani defeated one on one was because they overpowered them while they tried to block their assault.
And no to everything else said in that post. ESB, you're just throwing around baseless points. You need to make a case. Obi-Wan and Anakin both easily dealt with Magnaguards. Obi-Wan himself dealt with Grievious not because his "Form is perfect for it" because that's bullshit. Soresu is aimed at blaster bolt deflection and defense, not "+ 16 versus Grievious." Don't make exceptions for Obi-Wan, because it doesn't make a case. Hell, Kit Fisto was better than Obi-Wan for the first year of the Clone Wars at least and even if he didn't get much better than this, he can pwn two Magnaguards at once.
Avis, don't do that. You can't just say something like "A is equal to B" and not support it and expect me, of all people, to buy it.
Second, by everything I've seen and heard, Ki and Shaak Ti and the others were... ahem... AMBUSHED, and in that particular case were more victims of SHOCK and SURPRISE then LIGHTSABER MASTERY. Considering you posted Faunus' theory on Grievious I'm surprised you even considered to argue for Grievious. Him and two Magnaguards aren't amazing enemies unless they have the element of surprise. Here, they don't. So here's where I'm coming from...
Kit FIsto > Two Magnaguards.
That leaves Agen + Saesee versus GG.
Under the assumption that GG doesn't have the advantage of surprise, it's reasonable to me to conclude that Agen and Saesee can both contend with Grievious until Kit Fisto mops up the Magnaguards and then they curbstomp Grievious.
Period.
Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Grievous fights using movements that is almost unpredictable. The fact that Kit, Agen, and Tiin wouldn't be able to hold out long or do you not know about Greivous?
You're starting to remind me why I didn't like you in the first place. You argue from fanboyism. Please... don't do that.
If Grievious' moves are "almost unpredictable", why did Obi-Wan parry his blades moving as they did? Why did Ki-Adi-Mundi, someone who can't parry more than two blaster bolts at a time, survive his encounter? Can you explain anything in relation to this fight that isn't hyperbole, or do you not know about hyperbole?
Originally posted by Ianus
You're starting to remind me why I didn't like you in the first place. You argue from fanboyism. Please... don't do that.If Grievious' moves are "almost unpredictable", why did Obi-Wan parry his blades moving as they did? Why did Ki-Adi-Mundi, someone who can't parry more than two blaster bolts at a time, survive his encounter? Can you explain anything in relation to this fight that isn't hyperbole, or do you not know about hyperbole?
Ki-Adi-Mundi was caught by surprise by eight Galactic Marines. Big, fast guns. He managed to take out two of them, so give him some credit.
^ I really don't think I've ever sounded that desperate before. . .
Now, to the fight.
The MagnaGuards are formidable opponents, I have no doubt about that. They managed to force Obi-Wan and Anakin to give ground under their relentless assault. But while vicious combatants, they serve as more of a distraction that actual threats. Obi-Wan and Anakin, while under pressure, were never in any real danger there. And I doubt that Agen, Saesee, and most of all Kit, will face a real threat in them either.
As to Grievous. I have already posted my theory on his prowess and reputation twice, so most people worth debating with have already seen it. Unless someone really wants me to, I'm not going to re-post it.
Now the General, with or without fear, intimidation, and surprise on his side, should be able to defeat any one of this trio in single combat. Fisto would give him some considerable trouble, but I doubt even he could scrape a victory. Grievous attacks extremely fast and with a completely inpredictable style. In fact, if one refers to the Battle on Hypori, he throws his right-hand lightsaber into the air as a Jedi Master seeks to deflect it, slashes the Whipid with his left, and finishes him off with a down-swing.
However, against both Saesee and Agen, who have worked together in a sabotage mission during the Clone Wars, he should have a good deal of trouble. He may well be able to win this, and would likely manage to kill one of the two quickly, I highly doubt that he can do this before Kit joins the fray. Remember, the Nautolan wove through the MagnaGuards, severing several limbs in seconds. I have the book on hand, so here's the passage:
In the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon, they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs. . .
So, Kit will rid himself of the Guards rather quickly, and proceed to work cohesively with his comrades in bringing down the droid General. They may suffer a loss, but this is doubtful.
--
On a side note, I would like to add something to my explanation for the Hypori Situation. That particular battle was the first time any Jedi had ever laid eyes upon Grievous and lived. Can you imagine the terror thhat must have coursed through them as he crushed Tarr's body into the ground? Or when he suddenly detached from the rocky ceiling to fall upon them? Add this to the fact that never in the galaxy had somebody fought like that, with lightsabers, nonetheless, and I'm surprised that there were any survivors. Kenobi and Mace had atleast heard of Grievous's combat style, his proficency with the lightsaber, before they engaged him. Ki, Shaak Ti, and the others had no such luck.
In Zett's case, he had the jump on the clones, not the other way around. But in all honesty, Zett would have been a ferocious Jedi had he been allowed to grow to full power.
And I suppose Ki-Adi-Mundi didn't get a marvelous death, but it was that particular scene that made me interested in his character. He was the only Jedi of the seven on Hypori to successfully stand up to Grievous, too. So he has some Kewlness Points on his side.