EDIT: Niether ever became true Lords of the Sith since they stole the mantle underhandedly instead of proving they were worthy of it.Since, when "True Sith Lord" needs to have sense of honor and prove it in a fair fight? Sith are all about selfishness, ultimate goal is to gain power by any means, which in no way must be achieved fairly.
Plagueis and his master both were not vigilant enough. But Sidious was far more clever, than them. Did anyone manage to overthrow him? Vader tried to use Marek and Luke and failed. Later Luke tried to overthrow him and failed as well. All other Sith and Dark Jedi haven't even dared to confront him. Ancient Sith spirits stated that he is the greatest ever and the strongest ever, they didn't care by what means he achieved both power and galaxy dominance.
but by not proving they were not superior to their masters they very well could have weakened the Sith instead of strengthing it. for arguments sake lets say Plagues wasn't half as strong as his master yet killed him underhandedly.
would that make the Sith stronger? would that now make Plagues more powerful than his master? smarter maybe. craftier probably. but more powerful? nah son.
same goes with Sidious. im not saying they weren't as strong but for all we know they were very inferior to their masters and by taking power before their time they could have weakened the Sith alot which could be the reason the Jedi (mostly Luke) were able to fight back and kill the Sith off instead of the Sith holding that power forever
Originally posted by juggerman
smarter maybe. craftier probably. but more powerful? nah son.
But ultimately the first two qualities are what is most important. True battle between Siths and Jedis sint fought in lightsaber duels but with the mind.
And a real Sith Master wouldn't ever leave themselves so vulnerable. They would hide their place of recuperation from the apprentice.
Originally posted by juggerman
but by not proving they were not superior to their masters they very well could have weakened the Sith instead of strengthing it. for arguments sake lets say Plagues wasn't half as strong as his master yet killed him underhandedly.would that make the Sith stronger? would that now make Plagues more powerful than his master? smarter maybe. craftier probably. but more powerful? nah son.
same goes with Sidious. im not saying they weren't as strong but for all we know they were very inferior to their masters and by taking power before their time they could have weakened the Sith alot which could be the reason the Jedi (mostly Luke) were able to fight back and kill the Sith off instead of the Sith holding that power forever
2. The only Sith to dominate entire galaxy. Which shows him as one of the most clever and cunning Sith.
3. Became the most powerful Sith and demonstrated the most destructive Force ability.
4. The only Sith from Rule of Two that wasn't succeeded by his apprentice. And his apprentices include two strongest Force users to ever live: Anakin and Luke. Unlike Plagueis and other Sith, Palpatine never put himself in vulnerable position for assassination by another Sith.
5. Created the most destructive super weapon with Sith Alchemy and Sorcery. World Devastators - military couldn't do anything with them, thanks to Luke for acquiring codes to disable them.
Taking out master safe way doesn't prove they were less powerful or less strong. Sidious likely was more powerful already but didn't want to take any chances.
so we may never know if he was more powerful, less powerful or about equal right? just because he chose to take out Plagues doesnt mean he was ready to. he could have been weaker all around but took it anyway right?
According to your statement worthy Sith supposed to follow Rule of Two but the thread includes Sith that didn't follow this ideology as well.
yes but without the rule of two the Sith would have been weakened/destroyed long ago due to in fighting and whatnot. the rule of two is what made the Sith so powerful and deadly and made it possible to get their revenge. the ones who didnt live by it imo were selfish and trying to amass power for the sake of power instead of seriously trying to create Sith dominance
Simple facts why Sidious is worthy:
1. Sidious mastered all forms and was one of the deadliest combatant ever known, even when he was out of practice for over decade, he matched two Jedi that are considered among the best combatants in history.2. The only Sith to dominate entire galaxy. Which shows him as one of the most clever and cunning Sith.
3. Became the most powerful Sith and demonstrated the most destructive Force ability.
4. The only Sith from Rule of Two that wasn't succeeded by his apprentice. And his apprentices include two strongest Force users to ever live: Anakin and Luke. Unlike Plagueis and other Sith, Palpatine never put himself in vulnerable position for assassination by another Sith.
5. Created the most destructive super weapon with Sith Alchemy and Sorcery. World Devastators - military couldn't do anything with them, thanks to Luke for acquiring codes to disable them.
im not trying to say Sidious wasn't worthy i know he achieved what no other has and fulfilled Bane's legacy but the fact that he killed his master so cowardly really just rubs me the wrong way. it makes me think that he wasnt strong enogh to kill his master properly and if that was the case then maybe, just maybe, Plagues would have found another apprentice (most likely Anaikin) and he would have conquored like Sidious did tho being more powerful he would have held onto that control longer. maybe forever
But ultimately the first two qualities are what is most important. True battle between Siths and Jedis sint fought in lightsaber duels but with the mind.
Bane was fooled by Githany's poisoned lips. does that now mean she was the better Sith seeing as how her craftiness and smarts brought Bane to the brink of death? She still wouldn't have been able to do half of what Bane did just with those two skills
And a real Sith Master wouldn't ever leave themselves so vulnerable. They would hide their place of recuperation from the apprentice.
well i dont really consider Plauges to have a rightful lord of the sith either since he also killed his master in a cowardly way instead of proving he was superior. guess that cowardice rubbed off on Sidious
There was a Facebook Q&A with James Luceno, author of Darth Plagueis, months ago. This is what he had to say on the subject of Sidious vs. Plagueis:
James Luceno
Q: Do you feel that, had it come to a contest of lightsabers or Force powers, Sidious would have prevailed anyway?
A: If it had come to a duel, I think Plagueis may have found a way to undermine his apprentice
Originally posted by juggerman
Bane was fooled by Githany's poisoned lips. does that now mean she was the better Sith seeing as how her craftiness and smarts brought Bane to the brink of death? She still wouldn't have been able to do half of what Bane did just with those two skills
Bane was almost undone by his own overconfidence. He knew Githany would use poison, he just didn't expect her to use two. Yet, he did what he had to in order to survive and carry on the Sith legacy.
Truth. I'd say Sidious' weakness was not the means by which he took power either from his Master or within the Galaxy, it was in that he revelled in power for powers sake, not to further the Sith itself. Since we're talking about the greatest Sith, I'd say that hurts him, though no Sith was perfect, especially the more powerful he or she grew.
I think Bane was the closest thing to the perfect Sith there ever was.
1st and foremost he was the Sith'ari 😎
2nd he created the path for the Sith to follow to be successful
3rd he was powerful as shizzle
4th he was sneaky as hell. (got the Brotherhood to destroy themselves, created rumors of Sith so they would believed just to be stuff of legends, ect)
5th and maybe most important he put the Sith cause before his own selfish desires (destroying the brotherhood instead of ruling them, training Zannah to userp him, not just body swapping and/or taking a new apprentice, not just living like a king and enjoying his power, ect)
imho anyone else would have failed where Bane flourished and created a new Sith order much smaller yet much more powerful than any other