Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
In an interview with GL, he said the he felt the book was to biased towards Sidious and that he felt that it was corrected in the movies. If it had been a setup, what would GL have had to correct?
Do you have a link?(And if its true, where do you get all this information you always seem to know and I dont? 😠 )
i think that sidious definately is on a different level than mace, my theory is that sidious was only "having trouble" with mace is because he was buying time for anikin to arrive, ever since he met anikin he had been planning to use him as his apprentice, and since he's one of the strongest force users in history whats stopping him from looking into the future and seeing him fighting mace and than anikin just about 15min late in deciding to go to the office and anikin doesnt turn to the dark side and his plan dies. if sidious has the power everyone knows he has he would have predicted all of this from the start all up until vader threw him over the railing and why you say did he not predict this? Arrogance! every sith lord has it, sidious figured he had vader wrapped around his finger and up his ass that luke couldnt fase him that i think is the sith's ultimate downfall their arrogance ok now thers my arguement thanks for listening
Originally posted by Kito FistSpelling and punctuation are nice.
i think that sidious definately is on a different level than mace, my theory is that sidious was only "having trouble" with mace is because he was buying time for anikin to arrive, ever since he met anikin he had been planning to use him as his apprentice, and since he's one of the strongest force users in history whats stopping him from looking into the future and seeing him fighting mace and than anikin just about 15min late in deciding to go to the office and anikin doesnt turn to the dark side and his plan dies. if sidious has the power everyone knows he has he would have predicted all of this from the start all up until vader threw him over the railing and why you say did he not predict this? Arrogance! every sith lord has it, sidious figured he had vader wrapped around his finger and up his ass that luke couldnt fase him that i think is the sith's ultimate downfall their arrogance ok now thers my arguement thanks for listening
Also, is there a reason you decided to revive a three year-old thread instead of its many, many more recent clones?
Originally posted by Faunus
Spelling and punctuation are nice.Also, is there a reason you decided to revive a three year-old thread instead of its many, many more recent clones?
He probably googled Sidious vs Mace, and he came upon this thread. That is how i find a lot of different forum sites. He is new here.
Mace has already beat Sidious. Sure it's in the senate room, but contrary to what people believe, I think that Mace being among the most powerful jedi ever who took on millions of super battle droids with his bare hands, force crushed Grevious easily and blocked Sidious's lightning, could easily deflect/dodge a senate pod.
Also, when Yoda and Sidious fought, they were very close to each other and fought w/lightsabers the entire time except for once. So if the same thing happens here, Mace will be all over Sidious.
And no, that Sidious vs Mace fight was not a set up.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Mace has already beat Sidious. Sure it's in the senate room, but contrary to what people believe, I think that Mace being among the most powerful jedi ever who took on millions of super battle droids with his bare hands, force crushed Grevious easily and blocked Sidious's lightning, could easily deflect/dodge a senate pod.Also, when Yoda and Sidious fought, they were very close to each other and fought w/lightsabers the entire time except for once. So if the same thing happens here, Mace will be all over Sidious.
And no, that Sidious vs Mace fight was not a set up.
Sidious was not going all out on Mace with the force. Yoda is faster than Mace, but had a hard time dodging the senate pods, and even lost his balance. GL has stated in the commentary that Sidious was pretending to be weak towards the end. So when you hear him calling out to Anakin in desparation, it is a fake. Windu on the other hand was not faking. He was actually struggling to hold on to his saber, because the lightning was to strong. If Sidious would have continued the assault Windu would have been overpowered by the lightning.
Case closed.
one thing that has to be considered between Mace and Palpatine is that everything Palpatine did was part of his plan to take over the galaxy...he would have sensed by the force that Anakin was coming to the room where he was fighting the 4 Jedi...he knew that the only way he would have been able to turn Anakin completely to the dark side would be to appear helpless and as if he was being killed by Mace
had it been the other way around and Anakin walked in to see Windu on the floor just barely struggling to hold off Sidious then it's far more likely to have forced Anakin to save Windu and remain a Jedi...
so either he feigned weakness in order to make Anakin kill Windu to save him...or he left left everything to blind luck and hoped Anakin would turn and save him
or a 3rd option is that he knew he would be beaten and manipulated Anakin with a Jedi mind trick (or something similar) in order to save him
as for this case...well i guess it would depend on which interpretation of the real fight was true
Originally posted by jaden101
one thing that has to be considered between Mace and Palpatine is that everything Palpatine did was part of his plan to take over the galaxy...he would have sensed by the force that Anakin was coming to the room where he was fighting the 4 Jedi...he knew that the only way he would have been able to turn Anakin completely to the dark side would be to appear helpless and as if he was being killed by Macehad it been the other way around and Anakin walked in to see Windu on the floor just barely struggling to hold off Sidious then it's far more likely to have forced Anakin to save Windu and remain a Jedi...
so either he feigned weakness in order to make Anakin kill Windu to save him...or he left left everything to blind luck and hoped Anakin would turn and save him
or a 3rd option is that he knew he would be beaten and manipulated Anakin with a Jedi mind trick (or something similar) in order to save him
as for this case...well i guess it would depend on which interpretation of the real fight was true
Lol it was definately not a mind trick.
It is still up for debate whether or not Sidious threw the saber fight, and allowed Windu to overpower him.
IMO Palpatine threw the saber fight. It is kind of weird how as soon as Anakin walked in, Palpatine suddenly gets overpowered. We know Palpatine planned for Anakin to come back. He did telepathically call out to Anakin, while Anakin was in the jedi temple, and warning him that if the jedi destroyed him Anakin would never learn the secret to save Padme. So in other words Palpatine wanted Anakin to believe that Windu and the other jedi were more than a match for him. I doubt Palpatine actually believed this himself, or he would most likely not of challenged them alone.
Whether Palpatine was playing weakness is not up for debate. GL specifically says Palpatine was playing weakness.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Palpatine faked weakness during his Lightning barrage: "I-I'm too weak. Oh, don't kill me." The debate is over whether he feigned the duel.
Lol it was definately not a mind trick.It is still up for debate whether or not Sidious threw the saber fight, and allowed Windu to overpower him.
IMO Palpatine threw the saber fight. It is kind of weird how as soon as Anakin walked in, Palpatine suddenly gets overpowered. We know Palpatine planned for Anakin to come back. He did telepathically call out to Anakin, while Anakin was in the jedi temple, and warning him that if the jedi destroyed him Anakin would never learn the secret to save Padme. So in other words Palpatine wanted Anakin to believe that Windu and the other jedi were more than a match for him. I doubt Palpatine actually believed this himself, or he would most likely not of challenged them alone.
Whether Palpatine was playing weakness is not up for debate. GL specifically says Palpatine was playing weakness.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Lol it was definately not a mind trick.
everything that Sidious does is a mind trick...his ability to manipulate the force so that no Jedi could detect him is about as masterful a deception using the force as is possible and is essentially using the force to trick the entire Jedi order
he obviously knew what Anakin represented and he had to manipulate him from the start in order to turn him...thus again manipulating the weak minded (relatively)...some even argue that Palpatine created Anakin by perfecting techniques his old master began working on (different debate altogether though)
every little decision and suggestion he made concerning Anakin was designed to undermine Anakin's connection to the Jedi...he always forced the Jedi to appear as if they were not giving Anakin the credit he felt he deserved right infront of his face
all part of the set up that led to the showdown in Palpatine's room with Mace
the question is whether the more subtle manipulation of Anakin over many years was enough because he knew he only needed to appear weak and in danger infront of Anakin (even though he was only feigning weakness) or whether he was genuinely in danger from Mace and had to manipulate Anakin more directly to save him
Originally posted by Faunus
George Lucas says otherwise. It's not up for debate.
No.
George said that Windu "overpowered" Sidious. But as Lightsnake and Nebaris have both pointed out in the past before, that doesn't require Sidious to be at full destructive capability.
The novelization, however, throws that idea out the window. If someone wants to suggest that Sidious "threw teh fight!" he or she has the unenviable task of proving it.
Not that it matters. On paper, Sidious has this in the bag. Initially, he's faster and deadlier than Windu in terms of swordsmanship and always maintains a considerable advantage in Force strength and mastery.
Originally posted by jaden101In essence, you're correct. But it's colloquial. There's a difference between mind-f*cking someone and putting a mask on.
everything that Sidious does is a mind trick...his ability to manipulate the force so that no Jedi could detect him is about as masterful a deception using the force as is possible and is essentially using the force to trick the entire Jedi order
Originally posted by GideonMeh.
No.George said that Windu "overpowered" Sidious. But as Lightsnake and Nebaris have both pointed out in the past before, that doesn't require Sidious to be at full destructive capability.
^ That's going to be in the Dictionary.
The novelization, however, throws that idea out the window. If someone wants to suggest that Sidious "threw teh fight!" he or she has the unenviable task of proving it.The novelization is weird. They fight on a wet ledge, where Sidious slows down to maintain a better grip, then Mace senses what is apparently Anakin's fear and disarms Sidious...
Originally posted by Gideon
No.George said that Windu "overpowered" Sidious. But as Lightsnake and Nebaris have both pointed out in the past before, that doesn't require Sidious to be at full destructive capability.
The novelization, however, throws that idea out the window. If someone wants to suggest that Sidious "threw teh fight!" he or she has the unenviable task of proving it.
Not that it matters. On paper, Sidious has this in the bag. Initially, he's faster and deadlier than Windu in terms of swordsmanship and always maintains a considerable advantage in Force strength and mastery.
There is no proof. that is why i said in my opinion, which makes sense.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Mace has already beat Sidious. Sure it's in the senate room, but contrary to what people believe, I think that Mace being among the most powerful jedi ever who took on millions of super battle droids with his bare hands, force crushed Grevious easily and blocked Sidious's lightning, could easily deflect/dodge a senate pod.Also, when Yoda and Sidious fought, they were very close to each other and fought w/lightsabers the entire time except for once. So if the same thing happens here, Mace will be all over Sidious.
And no, that Sidious vs Mace fight was not a set up.