Immigration Fences

Originally posted by AdventChild
The mexicans do the jobs you americans think yall are too good for ..or the mexicans will work for lower wages than americans...americans want to work for what they think they are worth while the mexicans are just trying to make life better for themselves and their family....i can't believe you just said that snoopbert knowing that i'm half mexican!

Immigrants would be worth that rate too if only they'd go through the proper procedures instead of just hopping the fence...

think about it....
If the mexicans sign up... then they will have to pay taxes and other costs... this will cut into the wage... Then it wouldn't be worth doing...

The farmers probably couldn't pay them the correct wage as there buisness wouldn't make enough profit... then the whole system will collapse..

so the best method is to leave it as it is...
Govenment: We don't like boarder crossers... but we don't wana do anything about it...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
think about it....
If the mexicans sign up... then they will have to pay taxes and other costs... this will cut into the wage... Then it wouldn't be worth doing...

The farmers probably couldn't pay them the correct wage as there buisness wouldn't make enough profit... then the whole system will collapse..

so the best method is to leave it as it is...
Govenment: We don't like boarder crossers... but we don't wana do anything about it...

Yeah turn the blind eye .........ignore the problem thats the solution.......

is that how you pay your bills too? Taking action is the only way to achieve results sitting back and letting things occur is bound to do one thing...........nothing yup literally pay bills on that thought🙂

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
think about it....
If the mexicans sign up... then they will have to pay taxes and other costs... this will cut into the wage... Then it wouldn't be worth doing...

The farmers probably couldn't pay them the correct wage as there buisness wouldn't make enough profit... then the whole system will collapse..

so the best method is to leave it as it is...
Govenment: We don't like boarder crossers... but we don't wana do anything about it...

You have to grasp a bigger picture...

There is no simple easy solution... Don't bring bad analogies into this, it isn't that simple a decision..

If they pay them more the farmer has to charge more... Then the supermarket doesn't wana buy the farmers goods cause its cheaper to import the goods...

Effective people don't wana do low grade jobs... they tend to have ambitions...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
You have to grasp a bigger picture...

There is no simple easy solution... Don't bring bad analogies into this, it isn't that simple a decision..

If they pay them more the farmer has to charge more... Then the supermarket doesn't wana buy the farmers goods cause its cheaper to import the goods...

Effective people don't wana do low grade jobs... they tend to have ambitions...

Don't group everyone into a group you want to associate with. Let's understand your economic model here a second. So your saying take money away from the Gov't in taxes so a product can in turn be produced at a more economic rate and in turn everyone gets to pay extra tax's for the consumption and services that the ILLEGAL immigrants use.

You keep speaking of jobs no one else will take and let them have them........a significant portion of the illegal immigrants aren't coming here to work live and raise a family but to work and take the ALMIGHTY dollar back to say mexico where the pesso has less value! Please if you really want to get into an economic discussion don't use this "jobs no one else wants" piece. If you want a big picture look beyond the picture you paint there are several possible outcomes.

Inviting alot of people into the USA that don't even have a highschool education places more burden on society as the average income is significantly lower then one with education and everyone suffers except the uneducated who suck up all resources in the USA not available in Mexico.

Originally posted by AdventChild
The mexicans do the jobs you americans think yall are too good for ..or the mexicans will work for lower wages than americans...americans want to work for what they think they are worth while the mexicans are just trying to make life better for themselves and their family....i can't believe you just said that snoopbert knowing that i'm half mexican!

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
You have to grasp a bigger picture...

There is no simple easy solution... Don't bring bad analogies into this, it isn't that simple a decision..

If they pay them more the farmer has to charge more... Then the supermarket doesn't wana buy the farmers goods cause its cheaper to import the goods...

Effective people don't wana do low grade jobs... they tend to have ambitions...

More effective workers = more crops yeilded in a more timely matter. The price would not necessarily be effected in a negative way. And plenty of people who are effective workers are in low grade jobs.. who do you think makes up the majority of the work force? You should try not to generalize so much..

What these farms do is exploit the illegal immigrant's situation, just like sweatshop owners in 3rd world countries. I'm sorry but I don't see the price of oranges going up as a valid reason to allow these people to continue to break the law.

Originally posted by soleran30
Let's understand your economic model here a second. So your saying take money away from the Gov't in taxes so a product can in turn be produced at a more economic rate and in turn everyone gets to pay extra tax's for the consumption and services that the ILLEGAL immigrants use.

What you gonner use those taxes on??? more weapons? do you know how much your defence(lol... More like offence) budget is?? you could solve most world problems with it....

Originally posted by soleran30
You keep speaking of jobs no one else will take and let them have them.........

Originally posted by soleran30
a significant portion of the illegal immigrants aren't coming here to work live and raise a family but to work and take the ALMIGHTY dollar back to say mexico where the pesso has less value! Please if you really want to get into an economic discussion don't use this "jobs no one else wants" piece. If you want a big picture look beyond the picture you paint there are several possible outcomes.

Originally posted by soleran30
Inviting alot of people into the USA that don't even have a highschool education places more burden on society as the average income is significantly lower then one with education and everyone suffers except the uneducated who suck up all resources in the USA not available in Mexico.

Lol.... Please expand on this.... I know its gonner be funny....

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
What analogy?

Originally posted by soleran30
Yeah turn the blind eye .........ignore the problem thats the solution.. is that how you pay your bills too? Taking action is the only way to achieve results sitting back and letting things occur is bound to do one thing...........nothing yup literally pay bills on that thought🙂

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
More effective workers = more crops yeilded in a more timely matter. The price would not necessarily be effected in a negative way. And plenty of people who are effective workers are in low grade jobs.. who do you think makes up the majority of the work force? You should try not to generalize so much..

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
What these farms do is exploit the illegal immigrant's situation, just like sweatshop owners in 3rd world countries. I'm sorry but I don't see the price of oranges going up as a valid reason to allow these people to continue to break the law.

Yeah know I have yet to see ANY significant fact that you have brought to the table to justify any ILLEGAL immigration. I have read alot of what you FEEL should be done and is right.

Apparently you are not in the USA right now so wherever you get your nonsense from it at least amuses me. These people are illegal, the problems that they have in their country isn't my concern.......since you are so up on it why don't you create some organization to employee these poor people to help with their lives🙂

I am certainly not here to give you a socio-economic lesson. Go to school read more and when you can validate your pieces without some rhetoric you hear please by all means come back and lets discuss this. Until then you don't have a good grasp on this topic in my opinion.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
if thats not an analogy..... well.... erm...

Lol... It doesn't require a genius to become an effective farmer.. Or any other low grade jobs... I'm sure they become pros after a week or two..

Immigrants are exploiting the situation as well...
Why don't you look into "Fair trade" items...
In africa people are given a less then fair price for there goods... if they charge a fair price they can't compete in the shops... The prices rise a bit ya see... Same would happen if they paided immagrants fair.... Your hurting the immagrants in the long run...

You think your country is the only one with immigration???

You crack me up... you seem soo closed minded... We all know immigration is wrong... If it was such a simple case as Shutting the boarders down.. don't you think they would have done it already??? Your country can have forces active in 10 odd countries.. But not control your own boarders??? lol.....

Point is you can't expect people to live crappy lives and not try to better themselves... If mexicans didn't boarder hop their country would fall apart...

What do you do for a living soleran?? are mexicans a threat to your job security??

Please Mr.knowitall... Fill me in with your solution to the problem....It should be good!!✅
You did yourself in with
"Inviting alot of people into the USA that don't even have a highschool education places more burden on society as the average income is significantly lower then one with education and everyone suffers except the uneducated who suck up all resources in the USA not available in Mexico. "
please expand on this jem....

Stop trying to make this personal... Can you please tell me how you have a better grasp on the opinion then me???

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Where did I say anything about intellect? Fact of the matter is, you get what you pay for. I'm not suggesting that low grade jobs should be highly selective.. just that they only hire people at decent wages who deserve those wages and will get the job done correctly.. usually if you get illegals to work for you you're paying for some pretty unskilled workers who are cheap but less effective. I say this mostly from personal experience.

But that's the thing.. those shops have to worry about competition. Immigrants ARE the competition. They are the ones who drive down the wages, if they were payed fairly (as in minimum wage, which it's illegal to go below) it'd be better for everyone.

After a week or 2 they will be skilled enough for the job... or how long do you think it would take to raise there skills to a suitable lvl???

If Immigrants got a fair wage... Farmers would have to charge more.. Shops Could import the veg(or whatever) at a cheaper price... OR will have to charge more...
Not to mention immigrants will have to pay taxes.. so they will be less likely to want the jobs...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
You crack me up... you seem soo closed minded... We all know immigration is wrong... If it was such a simple case as Shutting the boarders down.. don't you think they would have done it already??? Your country can have forces active in 10 odd countries.. But not control your own boarders??? lol.....

and thats the circle of life their my friend...

If you close them... your doomed...
if you open them too much... your doomed...

Thats why the current situation kinda works...

I don't think immigration is wrong......no where have I said that.

If the immigrant doesn't want to be legal fine deport them......I pay tax's they don't. Tell me where its posted that its the job of the USA to make their lives better.....its not.

Placing live people at the borders isn't the solution, hence the fence idea!

The UK doesn't get near the illegal immigrants the USA does. See the education piece is HUGE. Now had you looked up average wages paid in the USA based upon education then you might have a better understanding of what I was saying in that the lower education immigrants on average cost the USA more in tax dollars. The reason is they use more social programs.

So what do illegal immigrants cost? Well they get emergency room care whether they can pay or not, paid in US dollars which has a greater converstion rate to pessos in mexico, most don't speak english so language barrier to the average citizen.

A huge ass fence like Israel has put up would HAVE A significant impact on how many people can cross.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
After a week or 2 they will be skilled enough for the job... or how long do you think it would take to raise there skills to a suitable lvl???

If Immigrants got a fair wage... Farmers would have to charge more.. Shops Could import the veg(or whatever) at a cheaper price... OR will have to charge more...
Not to mention immigrants will have to pay taxes.. so they will be less likely to want the jobs...

There are illegals that charge 12 $ and hour to do yard work, I know many of them. Obviously, they're effective workers. Someone who can't even get the company to pay them minimum wage is obviously not.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
and thats the circle of life their my friend...

If you close them... your doomed...
if you open them too much... your doomed...

Thats why the current situation kinda works...

I'm not advocating shutting down the boarders.. i believe legal residency should be easier to obtain.. I'm just stating my problem with illegal aliens in the work force.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
So you're ashamed of your race? That's not the point and you just blatantly ignored mine. Twenty years ago, those jobs were used as stepping stones for kids getting out of or stil in High School too get onto a better life. My dad used to work at a metallurgy company cleaning up the floors.... a job no one wanted, but he did it until he could buy a small place in Seattle. Now, one kid in my school my age has a job and that's because he got lucky as his parents know someone. Everyone in my grade is a year older than me by the way, so it [b]is legal for them to work. Deport the illegal immigrants back to where they came from... and while we're at it, stay out of their business, if our government can do it. [/B]

Originally posted by AdventChild
really is it the immigrants that's really hurting our economy?...think about it....mexicans in my personally opinion are the hardest worker so it makes sense for employers to hire them...oh and when i mean employers i mean farmers...and when i mean jobs for mexicans to work at i mean the fields and landscaping companies.....I'm sure it's not an americans first choice to work at the fields picking crops..I'm thinking americans would rather work at mcdonalds or something along those lines....

Originally posted by Snoopbert
🙄 No point in debating with you, you can't seem to grasp the fact that the "not-wanted" jobs, including the ones you named were once filled with children that are now filled with a bunch of under-paid illegal immigrants.