Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ahh. How sweet. I am so glad you two are banding together to vanquish the evil Glentract. 😆I'm guessing that you got your definition from dictionary.com. I also notice that you chose the one that best suites your needs.
"To overcome or vanquish by superior force; subdue. " Was the first definition.
"To affect so strongly as to make helpless or ineffective; overwhelm." Was the second.
"To supply with excessive mechanical power." Was the third.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary online dictionary states the following for overpower, "to affect with overwhelming intensity."
Notice one of four definitions imply physical ability as related to overpowering someone.
EVEN IF Mace overpowered someone through physical superiorly, why would this work against Mace?
ROTS Mace is always going to have physical superiority over ROTS Sidious. It's never going to change.
Also, why didn't Sidious use the force to enhance his strength beyond Mace's level. Yoda does it, why doesn't Sidious?
Overall, you've proved nothing other than you fanboy level of devotion to Sidious. You have not shown that Mace overpowered Sidious only physically or why Sidious didn't use his force powers to overwhelm Mace with physical prowless. To top it all off, you have failed to prove that Sidious faked the fight with Mace Windu.
EVEN IF Mace overpowered someone through physical superiorly, why would this work against Mace?
It doesn't work against Mace, but A) it shows that Mace is not more powerful than Sidious, just physically so, and B) This is not contested. Like I said, Lucas stated the obvious: Mace is in better physical shape than Palpatine.
Also, why didn't Sidious use the force to enhance his strength beyond Mace's level. Yoda does it, why doesn't Sidious?
Who is to say that he doesn't? As well, who is to say that Mace doesn't either?
Oh, and I'd like to note that you made my argument for me: Because he threw the fight.
Overall, you've proved nothing other than you fanboy level of devotion to Sidious. You have not shown that Mace overpowered Sidious only physically or why Sidious didn't use his force powers to overwhelm Mace with physical prowless. To top it all off, you have failed to prove that Sidious faked the fight with Mace Windu.
More namecalling. I could easily state that your "fanboy devotion" either against Sidious or for Windu is more apparent given that you have only one scrap of evidence to support you. A very weak one at that.
Like I said before, it is clear that theirs was not a Force battle, one which I maintain that Sidious would win easily. As well, either both of them used the Force to enhance their physical abilities, or Sidious didn't, or neither did. However it happened Mace would still be physically stronger.
I'll just quote myself for your last statement:
The situation played out too perfectly for Sidious for it to not have been a setup.Reveal himself to the Chosen One, encourage the Chosen One to turn him in to the Jedi. Slaughter all but the most obviously dangerous Jedi, then pretend to lose to him and be at his mercy just as the Chosen One steps back into the door, unable to prevent himself from returning because of a lie you told him about keeping a loved one alive. Oh, and conveniently move the fight to a different chamber so the inconvenient and messy bodies of three Jedi Masters are out of the Chosen One's eyesight, the better to make the Chosen One's choice easier.
How was it a conscious decision of Mace's? Did he lead Palpatine into the hallway, or was it the other way around?
Even if it was Mace "leading" then it may have been a product of Palpatine's offense. So who is leading? Palpatine. There doesn't seem to me to be a reason for Mace to leave the room. Palpatine, however, has plenty of reason to.
Well, that does make sense, but I think it's also possible that he was a benefactor of the circumstances as it were. And really, I don't think Anakin would have batted an eye over three jedi lying dead if one of them is menacing Sidious and he never really trusted them anyways. It's effect would be hard to calculate.
I don't believe that Sidious was merely lucky. He orchestrated virually every other occurance in the PT, it's not hard to believe he could have orchestrated this one.
And Anakin would have been effected by the three dead masters. He saw what Windu did as an assassination attempt. I can speculate that his feelings on the matter would be somewhat different if he saw that Sidious had struck down three other Jedi.
In self defense? Not at all. Anakin suspects the jedi of plotting to take over, and suspects they don't trust him. He could be easily swayed to think that Palpatine had to do such in order to preserve himself and more importantly the knowledge he held which could save Padme.
And while I do give Sidious his due for being a manipulative genius, I don't think he micromanaged every single blow, feint, parry, move, or otherwise unless he has foresight of unparalleled ability, which ROTJ ending proved was not the case.
Originally posted by IKC
Then all we're left with is assumptions. My assumption is that even if Mace hadn't moved into the hall, Palpatine would have taken the fight there anyway. It makes sense and works perfectly with how events unfolded.
It seems like you are trying to draw conclusions from where there are none. It is an inference that Mace drew the fight into the hall. It is an assumption that Sidious would have anyway.
I don't think that the bodies would have affected Anakin that much as long as Sidious told Anakin that he just wanted to keep the secrets that could keep Padme alive, however, just to be safe, he moved into a room where Anakin would come into first. I do know that everything played out into Sidious' hands and it was no mere coincidence. Sidious planned it.
P.S. Why would Mace want to move into a bigger room? Sidious could just get away and fry or choke him or something if the room was bigger. Oh well, this isn't a great argument (thats why it's a P.S.).