Nightwing vs. Red Hood

thats right I'm talking Jason Todd red hood. I would love to see these two fight. in the Batman/Nightwing vs. Amazo issue, Nightwing briefly took on Jason, but he fired automatics at Dick, and escaped. Nightwing stated that the new Red hood is good... though this may be a comment on Jason's tatics. please note Nightwing was still recovering from a bullet wound and had a fat metal brace on his thigh.

Jason fought for the first half of the Hush fight with batman and did well, I'm guessing he switched to clayface when Batman started winning.

Jason Todd fought Robin in the recent teen titans and after a grueling fight, Jason Todd overpowered Tim and thrashed him. Although Tim did extremely well and beat Jason up quite a bit.

So, if Nightwing and Red Hood fought, who would you see winning?

Rules of the fight:

A chance encounter one night in Gotham
Nightwing is equipped with his usual gear (including batarangs, escrisma sticks, and one charge electric shock in suit etc)
Red Hood is just h2h, but note he's willing to kill people in his way

my vote goes to Nightwing due to experience and technique that surpasses Jason's. I think physically wise they are near equals, as they are both in their prime.

Bump, come on people this is a sensible thread...

If you've been reading Batman, then you know who the man is.
Jason Todd pretty much owns Gotham now.
Even Batman was watching him fight and was mentioning how it's like he never lost a step and executes every plan he ever taught him perfectly.

Originally posted by Juntai
If you've been reading Batman, then you know who the man is.
Jason Todd pretty much owns Gotham now.
Even Batman was watching him fight and was mentioning how it's like he never lost a step and executes every plan he ever taught him perfectly.

I've noticed that.
Although the thing that puzzles me (and hopefully DC will explain it somewhere down the line) is just how in goodness name JASON TODD got that good.
As Bat's said in Hush, Jason was NEVER that good.
However he, as the Red Hood, has gotten good enough to not only be a major threat to Batman but actually become a truly potent player in Gotham. Even going as far as to mess with Batman directly, and apparently doing so with impunity.

And this is Jason Todd???!!!!!!?????
Doing stuff even Nightwing couldn't really do as well if he tried!!!!????

Whatever brought Jason back from the dead (be it a Lazarus pit, magic, or other) definitely upgraded the sucker several levels up! Reason being Jason was nowhere near Dick Grayson in anything (apart from stealing cars), and Tim Drake even surpassed Jason.

Yet R.Hood is pulling feats that are virtually Batman level (in terms of tactics and execution of strategy, as well as fighting better than he was ever supposed to).

It will be interesting to see what the heck is going on when it comes to the Red Hood once DC decides to shed more light on the matter.

Originally posted by spetznaz
I've noticed that.
Although the thing that puzzles me (and hopefully DC will explain it somewhere down the line) is just how in goodness name JASON TODD got that good.
As Bat's said in Hush, Jason was NEVER that good.
However he, as the Red Hood, has gotten good enough to not only be a major threat to Batman but actually become a truly potent player in Gotham. Even going as far as to mess with Batman directly, and apparently doing so with impunity.

And this is Jason Todd???!!!!!!?????
Doing stuff even Nightwing couldn't really do as well if he tried!!!!????

Whatever brought Jason back from the dead (be it a Lazarus pit, magic, or other) definitely upgraded the sucker several levels up! Reason being Jason was nowhere near Dick Grayson in anything (apart from stealing cars), and Tim Drake even surpassed Jason.

Yet R.Hood is pulling feats that are virtually Batman level (in terms of tactics and execution of strategy, as well as fighting better than he was ever supposed to).

It will be interesting to see what the heck is going on when it comes to the Red Hood once DC decides to shed more light on the matter.

My thing is... why does Jason Todd have everything againt Robin and Batman...?

If you read Deadman: Dead again.
He was there when Robin died, and was leading his soul off. It got captured but Deadman saved the day in the end.
Anyways-- He was talking to Jason Todd, and he was saying "It's all my fault... If I'd just followed orders, none of this would have happened."

Originally posted by Juntai
Lately they've been commenting on if Batman actually can stop him or not. Like I said, he actually controls entire sections of Gotham now.

My thing is... why does Jason Todd have everything againt Robin and Batman...?

If you read Deadman: Dead again.
He was there when Robin died, and was leading his soul off. It got captured but Deadman saved the day in the end.
Anyways-- He was talking to Jason Todd, and he was saying "It's all my fault... If I'd just followed orders, none of this would have happened."

I'll check it out ....thanks.

maybe hes been tampered with 😛

say he did use a Laz pit, maybe he was dead for so long that the madness is lasting forever on Jason. instead of 24 hours. As mentioned by Raz, the madness makes him stronger, crazy stronger, and generally out of his mind...

... what if Jason is just feeling these effects but to a lesser degree as the madness is wearing off 😛

anyway, yea Jason Todd is kicking butt. I can't wait to see what happens in IC

Batman is clearly holding back. ALOT. In the last issue of Batman, Red Hood broke the proverbial camel's back. Batman's not playing with kid's gloves anymore.

Jason has shown some skill as he just recently kicked the crap out of Tim wearing an old Robin uniform in Teen Titans but Dick is a better fighter, has more agility and experience to take down the 2nd Robin.

Hood held his own fine enough against Bats in their first fight before Bats was sure who he was and it doesn't seem like Bruce to hold back on a hunch. Todd is like Punisher if he has up to par with Batman in skill, honestly I don't think Nightwing would stand much of a chance.

Originally posted by Draco69
Batman is clearly holding back. ALOT. In the last issue of Batman, Red Hood broke the proverbial camel's back. Batman's not playing with kid's gloves anymore.

Maybe Raz trained Jason all this time. From his death until now he's been under Ras' guidance. In Teen Titans "The Future is Now." Tim is told that Ras is still alive when he's in the future.

Originally posted by Juntai
Lately they've been commenting on if Batman actually can stop him or not. Like I said, he actually controls entire sections of Gotham now.

My thing is... why does Jason Todd have everything againt Robin and Batman...?

If you read Deadman: Dead again.
He was there when Robin died, and was leading his soul off. It got captured but Deadman saved the day in the end.
Anyways-- He was talking to Jason Todd, and he was saying "It's all my fault... If I'd just followed orders, none of this would have happened."

Jason probably rationalizes that batman is also at fault. If he had killed the Joker on their first encounter, he would have saved his life along with thousands of other killed by joker.

I think there are a lot of assumptions about Jason Todd and who he was that are out there in fandom that are just not accurate.

The reason that Nightwing and Robin III were more skilled was because they lived longer than Jason, not because they were more gifted athletes. Continuity-wise (post-crisis) Jason Todd just wasn't around that long. The training and experience of the other two Robins far exceded that of Jason.

The Red Hood is the age that Jason Todd would be if Jason Todd had never died at all. He has physically and mentally matured. His skills (as noted by Batman) suggest he has indeed been trained to the levels Batman obviously knew he could achieve if given the time and experience to reach his peak.

Based on the personality most writers have given Jason, were he given the time and training to reach his peak as the other Robins have been given (though Drake is still developing) he would be a better fighter than either of them, but he would not be quite as intelligent. Jason Todd was dangerously idealistic and vigilant to the point of near paranoia. Jason had a tendency to think in two-dimensions. This is what got him killed.

The other Robins are essentially trained in Batman's style and though they are exceptional, they aren't the original article. In his absence Jason has obviously been training himself in martial arts not familiar to the other Robins and Batman is thus unable to completely anticipate his moves. It seems likely that Raz'al'gul probably got to Jason as he was unable to win over Batman to be his heir.

Although Jason is brilliant and maybe as an adult a better strategist than the other Robins, I don't see him matching their scientific and analytical skills. This difference in intellect could lead to Nightwing beating Jason, but not fairly. It would be a trap or a gadget, not a fist that did the deed.

In a fight Red Hood is going to beat either Robin. You have to remember that this is not the Jason Todd we knew, he was an impulsive, neurotic child. This is the ADULT Jason Todd, a cunning and ruthless psychopath. Only Batman can stop him. In a fair fight with no quarter given and no clear advantage to either party, Red Hood will beat Nightwing.

Excelent last post.

Most people forget that Batman does have fault in what happened storywise.

The kid runs the world to find his true mom, then sees her apperantly alone with the Joker and all Batman does is " dont do anything?"

Stupid. I wonder what HE would do if he ever found out one of his parents wer alive.

"Although the thing that puzzles me (and hopefully DC will explain it somewhere down the line) is just how in goodness name JASON TODD got that good.
As Bat's said in Hush, Jason was NEVER that good."

I dont care about that line alot. And i will tell you why. He was indeed less complete as a whole, than Richard.

However if you read the post crisis stories you will see him doing stuff like fighting super powered guys with the Titans, defeating TwoFace alone, getting beat up in "Legends" by a mad mob, and staying in the hospital after -and- still getting up to help in the last stance with the heroes, and saving Batman`s back at least twice in the "Cult" as well another time in "10 nights of the beast" Against KgBeast.

Another thing. Jason took Richards training and completed it faster. He had to be good. The big difference is that he did it with help of rage instead of being a "natural".

todd has always been the better fighter, he has more fire, grayson was just so damn graceful with everything, thanks to his agility he makes things look nice, but todd was the bar room brawler, who liked to mix it up.