But your not telling me how he going to beat him because he Can't the more he hit Juggernaut the More he going to stand there and laugh at Superman period they only way to Stop the Juggernaut is to attack his mind or attack his magic and since Superman from when was invinted he as always had a weekness to Magic he can't harm Juggernaut.......
Originally posted by JuntaiThat's why they had to kill him off. PC Supes would win this in some stupid and boring way.
You're just not getting it, Superman before Crisis on Infinite Earths could do anything.Transmute matter.
Telepathy.
Invent anything, even if it didn't make sense.
Had any power... even if it didn't make sense.ANYTHING.
Originally posted by golem370
But your not telling me how he going to beat him because he Can't the more he hit Juggernaut the More he going to stand there and laugh at Superman period they only way to Stop the Juggernaut is to attack his mind or attack his magic and since Superman from when was invinted he as always had a weekness to Magic he can't harm Juggernaut.......
I just said Superman would win.
And I know that written well Juggernaut (esp. Classical) is impervious to physical assault.
However note several things.
First of all he is only impervious to assaults that are exuded by sources less powerful than Cytorrak himself/herself/itself. But due to the fact that Cytorrak is immensely powerful this is a moot point, and thus it can be taken as a givent hat Juggernaut is impervious to all physical harm.
However this brings the second aspect into play.
This fight asked who would win.
Not who would pummel the other into the ground.
Not who would sing lullabies to the other and lull them to sleep.
Not who would make the best sushi this side of the orient.
Nope ....it asked who would win.
Pre-Crisis Superman would win ....and he would win with tremendous ease.
Why?
Because the Juggernaut (any iteration of the Juggernaut) is simply too
uni-dimensional for Superman ....particularly Pre--Crisis Superman who could basically do anything.
Remember the example I gave where all Supes would need to do is fly to the other side of the earth and push it into a blackhole.
Well, he doesn't even have to do that.
He could simply fly to Pluto and BLOW the Earth into a blackhole.
Huff and puff and blow the earth, with Jugs, away.
When it comes to winning the fight it is a given .......Pre-Crisis Superman wins.
Now, when it comes to the ability to go against Cytorrak that is a matter for another discussion, but this thread asked who would win.
Pre-Crisis Superman would .....with astounding ease.
Originally posted by golem370
That's not beating Juggernaut that being weak and just ringouting Juggernaut not beating him.
LOL.
Being 'weak!'
That is a statement worthy of someone like W8888 not you.
And a win is a win.
It would be like the US applying economic sanctions on some nation (call it Banana Republic), and totally messing it up economically, and at the same time the US using covert agents (read:CIA) to rouse the rabble in Banana Republic and cause dissent within the populace; with the idea being that the mix of economic upheaval and internal schism will lead to political change.
Something that happened a lot in the 50s and 60s courtesy of our boys at Langley.
Anyways, the US does that, and the nation being targeted collapses (in that the economy and the political hegemon is destroyed, and thus new 'pro-American' leadership is instituted in the Banana Republic).
BUT then you see the deposed leaders start to say that the US was 'weak' because it didn't use military force and whatnot.
Yet the fact is that the US defeated the nation without firing a single shot, without losing a single American life, and managed to get rid of the older leadership and institute new leaders who are basically puppets of the US government. This sort of thing happened a lot (especially in South American and some parts of Africa and the mid-East) in the 50s and 60s, and part of the 70s.
Was it a military victory?
No.
Was it a victory?
Yes.
A victory is a victory.
This is the same thing.
You say Superman is weak because he blew away the entire planet, and Juggernaut with it, into a black hole.
If that is weak I'd love to see what strong is.
PRe-Crisis Superman wouldn't have to do anything to Juggernaut ....he would win simply by BLOWING.
From Pluto!
Tell me ONE way Classical Juggernaut could beat Pre-Crisis Superman (oh, and assume that Pre-Crisis Superman is NOT stupid .....PRe-Crisis S was a genius, thus he will not do anything foolish like walking up to Juggernaut and laying on the ground asking for a foot stomp).
Superman is simply too varied for Juggernaut.
PRe-C Superman wins.
Originally posted by golem370
You can not beat Juggernaut Physically the only way to stop him is by attacking his mind. Immeasurable Stamina and Total Indestructible Durability
"Quickly, reversing the polarity around himself by spinning with speeds of 1000 times of light, Superman absorbs all the psionic energy of the MULTIVERSE, and fusing it in himself by spinning backwards with his eyes closed, becoming the ULTIMATE TELEPATH!"
The man could do anything he wanted.
Originally posted by golem370
That's not beating Juggernaut that being weak and just ringouting Juggernaut not beating him.
Another example is the whole Israeli-Palestinian debacle.
The Palestinians accuse the Israelis all the time of 'cowardice' because while the Palestinian youth are using slingshots to throw stones the Israeli respond with Cobra helicopters and F-16I Soufas (the Israeli F-16 version).
The Palestinians claim that the Israelis are 'cowards' because they do not face them mano-a-mano.
To which I laugh.
A win is a win, and it is not weakness to take advantage of your strengths and use the weaknesses (and limitations) of your opponent.
Same thing with Jugs and Supes.
Juggernaut is a one-dimensional character who is limited only to linear attacks at ground level. That's all. He has strength, and he is unstoppable.
Pre-Crisis Superman was basically a deity.
It would be foolish for Superman to go and trade punches with Jugs when he can simply fly to the Andromeda galaxy and blow the entire milky way away.
And if that makes him 'weak' I'd say his 'weakness' is better than Juggernaut's 'strength.'
Um I think you guys ar forgetting just how crazy Juggs was back in the day. He came up with crazy stuff to beat everyone as well Exploding Magic Gobules magic concussive force blasts. Oh by the way wasn't PC Supes very effected by magic. Classic Juggs was a beast that was unstopppable unhurtable and did crazy stuff with magic all the time.
Superman is over written they have to keep making different Supermans Pre Crisis Superman Kingdom Come Superman Sundipped Superman Superman Prime Superman 1million I mean come on how many do there have to be? Why do they have to keep coming up with so many Superman. I mean you have Cyborg Superman Bizarro Superboy Supergirl Steel Eradicator. Even the Kyptonian Kyrpto give me a break.
They aren't different versions. Kingdom Come Superman, Sundipped Superman and Superman Prime are all the same damn person. Superman 1 Million is basically Pre-Crisis level power without the BS like Super Suction or Super Weaving.
All the others are completely different characters who behave nothing like Kal.
Originally posted by golem370Well, before the crisis, there was a Superman in several different universes that all had their own comic. The Crisis brought DC into a constant continuum, and there was one. A few of those Superman are elseworlds.
Superman is over written they have to keep making different Supermans Pre Crisis Superman Kingdom Come Superman Sundipped Superman Superman Prime Superman 1million I mean come on how many do there have to be? Why do they have to keep coming up with so many Superman. I mean you have Cyborg Superman Bizarro Superboy Supergirl Steel Eradicator. Even the Kyptonian Kyrpto give me a break.