Relegion, A Hoax?

Started by ushomefree3 pages

debbiejo

I read quickly through the attachement you sent. It sounds like it talks about the birth of Christian denominations? I will read it later to verify. I have other obligations at the moment.

Just to comment quickly on the Dead Sea Scrolls, who cares that most were fragmented and that Isaiah was the only one fully intact? What about the 24,000 or so original manuscripts found before the Dead Sea Scrolls pertaining to Jesus Christ? The scriptures today are the same as yesterday. The theology may be different, but not the scriptures. Have you ever read the many versions, and compared them youself? They say the same thing, just worded differently. I really don't understand you point. But I do appreciate the conversation. I really do.

Please debbiejo, explain away prophecy. If the Bible is a book that people have destroyed over the years munipulating; a difference of white to black... how came all the accurate prophecy? Mormans and Jehovah's Witnesses for example change the biblical scripture, and even add their own books to them, but not Christians. The bible has a textual accuracy of 99.5 percent. The only reason it is not 100 percent is because commas or things of the sort are out of place, not the message.

I'll be around. We will talk more. Take care.

The attachment was showing that only Isaiah was the original dead sea scroll found to be intact and somewhat accurate....For the rest, there are only segments taken from other interpretations to make a text....As for the other ideologies of Jesus, It's up to interpretations....many interpretations by the early fathers of the church.....For conformism....The prophecies are interesting though....Some would think they were edited in at a later date.....

Would you like to give some examples please, would be much appreciated.....And can also be interpretative differently without a denominational view....

Look forwared to it also Ushomefree.... 🙂

debbiejo

Examples of biblical prophecy will have to wait. I apologize. I lent a handful of books regarding the topic to a co-worker. When he is finished with them, I will relay a few examples. I may even open a thread on the subject? His arguments mirror so many others, that scripture was munipulated by desperate persons bent on power or whatever, to give the illusion that prophecy is historical fact. Prophecy is a key standard the Bible tells us to use to test whether something is truly from God (Deuteronomy 18:19-22). ONLY the Holy Bible makes such a claim! And yet, so many do not.

People are subjected to mainstream ideas and or theories, and they embrace them without any research. Does self imposed philosophy pave the way to truth? How about skimming through a handful of websites? With all the sincerity that one can muster, the answer is no. Bible study is NEVER ending. People have studied the Bible all their lives, and they still have questions that haven't been answered in the end. The Bible is deep, and it demands thorough investigation. People that represent their belief system with the opening phrase "I think" gains zero credibility. I don't care about what you think. What do the facts say?

It's interesting, that all world religions are considered worthy of respect... except Christianity. Apparently, Jesus Christ offends people. A month ago, I was engaged in conversation regarding the resurrection of Jesus Christ when somone over heard me and stated, "Jesus Christ was just a man, and He is dead." "Really," I responded, "what proof do you have?" He presented conspiracy theories ranging from Jesus's body being stolen, gaurds being paid off, gaurds falling asleep, and early Christians (or Disciples) deceiving the masses with an imposter. "Do you know what all these theories have in common?" I asked. He looked at me with a smirk on his face, but had nothing to say. I responded, "Not one of them said that the tomb wasn't empty!" "I never realized that before," he exclaimed, "that is interesting." "Yes," I said in delight, "all they had to do is present his dead body to end all the madness, but they didn't!"

The Jews knew that the tomb was empty! So they proposed and cooked up countless conspiracy theories to decieve the early Christians. Apparently, their efforts were not as powerful and evident as the risen Jesus.

Jesus doesn't offend me at all...............but me tired and gonna go to bed....I'll look more at this tomorrow.....yawn

Thanks Ushomefree.

Originally posted by ushomefree

lil bitchiness

Christianity is not a polytheistic religion. It is a monotheistic religion. Christianity holds that God is triune, consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit coming from the same essence.

And that idea was taken from Hinduism by Christians. Belief in one supreme being or reality. The father, the son and the holy ghost - Krishna, Vishnu and Shiva.

Christmas' date is a pagan holiday - Jesus was born somewhere around March, NOT december.

Easter, egg colouring etc etc, is pagan festival of reproduction and fertality...etc...etc.
Mass as well, the whole jesus' body and jesus blood is also pagan belief of ''eating gods'' to become like them...

etc...

lil bitchiness

Your message was a little short sighted. No pun intended. Please read.

The origins of Hinduism can be traced back to around 1500 B.C. in what is now India. It began as a polytheistic and ritualistic religion. The rituals were at first simple enough to be performed by the head of the household. As the centuries passed, however, they became increasingly complex. As a result, it became neccessary to create a priestly class and to train those priests to perform the rituals corrrectly. During this time, the Vedas were written to give the priests instructions as to how to perform the rituals.

As a result of the emphasis on the rituals, the priests became the sole means by which the people could approach and appease the gods. Because of their position as mediators with hte gods, the priests gained an increasing amount of power and control over the lives of the people. Finally, around 600 B.C., the people revolted. The form of Hinduism that emerged after the revolt emphasized the importance of internal mediation as opposed to the external rituals.

Between 800 to 300 B.C. the Upanishads were written. The Upanishads, also called Vedanta (the end of conclusion of the Vedas) are the Hindu equivalent of hte New Testament, The Upanishads expound the idea that behind the many gods stands one Reality, which is called Brahman. Brahman is an impersonal, monistic (all in one) force. The highest form of Brahman is called nirguna, which means "without attributes or qualities."

Even after the Upanishads were written, the Hindu concept of god continued to develop. It developed in the direction of God being personal. Nirguna Brahman became saguna Brahman, which is Brahman "with attributes." This personified form of Brahman is also called Ishvara.

According to Hindu tradition, Ishvara became known to humanity through the Trimurti (literally, "three manifestations"😉 of Brahman. Those manifestations include Brahman (the Creator), Vishnu (the Preserver), and Siva (the Destroyer). Each of the three deities has at least one devi, or divine spouse.

Ishvara became personified even further through the ten mythical incarnations of Vihnu, called avators. The forms of these incarnations include that of animals (for example, a fish, tourtoise, and boar) and of persons (for example, Rama, Krishna, Buddha). Epics such as the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, which includes the popular Bhagavad-Gita, tell the stories of these myths. Beyond the principal deities of hte Trimurti and the avators, it is estimated that there are 330 million other gods in Hinduism.

Besides the religion's various concepts of God, Hindusim can also be divided along the lines of whether the physical universe is considered to be real or illusionary (maya). The nondualistic (advaita) see Brahman alone as being real and the world illusionary. The qualified nondualists (vishishtadvaita) affirm the reality of both Brahman and the universe in that the universe is extended from the Being of Brahman. And the dualists (dvaita) see Brahman and the universe as being two distinct realities.

In the course of its history, Hinduism has spawned three religious movements that have since become world religions: Jainism, Buddhism, and Skihism. Although Hindusim is tremendously divers, most Hindus hold to the following beliefs: the impersonal Nature of Brahman, the Brahman/Atman Unity, the Law of Karma, Samsara (Reincarnation), and Moksha (Liberation).

Hinduism and Christianity are completely different! Buy a book on world religions and compare the two, and learn more about the birth of them. This is just a brief summary. Give me a break please (ha ha ha)!

Regarding Christmas, neither the New Testament nor any historical record marks the exact date of Jesus's birth. As a result, the Church initially considered many different dates including, Januray 2, March 21, March 25, April 18, April 19, May 20, May 28, November 17, and November 20. The Western Church first observed December 25 in the fourth century, and eventually Eastern Churches followed suit.

Some people criticize that Christmas has its origins as a pagan holiday. Some truth lies in the notion, considering that the timing of December 25 was selected to line up with several pagan Roman holidays that celebrated the winter solstice and worship of the sun. However, Church leaders didn't see matching the date as comprimising Christian teaching with the culture. Responding to any criticism, a fourth-century bishop remarked, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of Him who made it."

Most of the traditional customs of Christmas, such as gift giving, tree decorations, light hanging, and feasting, come from sources other than the Chruch.

Easter? No one knows for certain where the term Easter came from, but one theory is that it's derived from the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, who was connected with fertility and spring. If so, Christians named their high holy day Easter aiming to replace the pagan celebration of spring with their own holiday, like they did with Christmas. Easter is also often known as Pasch, which comes from the Hebrew word Pesach, meaning "Passover." Some Protestants prefer to call it simply Resurrection Day to remove the commecialized baggage that they see associated with the holy day.

In addition, the Easter bunny has pagan origins and has no real connection with the Christian celebration, although some churches use eggs as a metaphor for the new life Christians receive because of the Resurrection.

a) If you are to answer my question, do so with your own words, rather than ''copy and pase''.

If you are already gonna do that, CREDIT THE SOURCE.

That said, If you yourself had a slightest idea about Hinduism you wouldnt need random site to quote in order to explain something about it to me. I know plenty about Hinduism.

Christianity has taken so much from all other religions, its unbelievable, begining from Judaism to Hinduism, to paganism. Much like every other religion.

No religion is complitely original, and thus no organised religion can be the right one. Christianity is especailly included.

lil bitchiness

I did not copy and paste the information presented in my last message. I referenced material from "The Compact Guide To World Religions" written by Dean C. Halverson. I purchased the book, and simply wanted to present an accurate account of Hinduism. I apologize for being thorough. Buy the book, and educate yourself on the uniqueness of Christianity.

Judaism and Christianity branch out from the Old Testament. Jesus Christ created Christianity at the completion of His resurrection. And people responded. Converts of Christianity simply recognized prophecy regarding the Messiah that God promised in the Old Testament; Jews did not. Christians didn't borrow anything.

Hinduism sprung around the time the book of Genesis was written by Moses. Hinduism since its birth, has EVOLVED over the years, to include the concept of god(s). The trimurti of Brahman was established between 800 to 300 B.C. In what way have Christians borrowed or shared Hindu beliefs?

Paganism is a polytheistic religion, and is not based on doctrine or liturgy. Paganism covers a wide host of beliefs, to include the worship of goddesses. Christianity on the other hand is based on doctrine; the Word of God, and is monotheistic. I really don't understand your point. They are totally opposite.

I am not trying to argue with you. I'm just having a discussion.

Many Religions have "EVOLVED" to seem more believable and to suit the times. It all seems so... lame to me. Like I said before, there is nothing definite in all Religions, they all seem completely seperate and made up to me.

It was good when you could use it to explain things that were above you, but now, there is really no need for it. We have disproved so many aspects... once these are definite, the religions will probably "EVOLVE" again until the point where they are ridiculously far off from the origional religion, but people will still belive them anyway.

It all seems like a hoax that got out of hand to me.

Originally posted by ushomefree
lil bitchiness

I did not copy and paste the information presented in my last message. I referenced material from "The Compact Guide To World Religions" written by Dean C. Halverson. I purchased the book, and simply wanted to present an accurate account of Hinduism. I apologize for being thorough. Buy the book, and educate yourself on the uniqueness of Christianity.

Judaism and Christianity branch out from the Old Testament. Jesus Christ created Christianity at the completion of His resurrection. And people responded. Converts of Christianity simply recognized prophecy regarding the Messiah that God promised in the Old Testament; Jews did not. Christians didn't borrow anything.

Hinduism sprung around the time the book of Genesis was written by Moses. Hinduism since its birth, has EVOLVED over the years, to include the concept of god(s). The trimurti of Brahman was established between 800 to 300 B.C. In what way have Christians borrowed or shared Hindu beliefs?

Paganism is a polytheistic religion, and is not based on doctrine or liturgy. Paganism covers a wide host of beliefs, to include the worship of goddesses. Christianity on the other hand is based on doctrine; the Word of God, and is monotheistic. I really don't understand your point. They are totally opposite.

I am not trying to argue with you. I'm just having a discussion.

Yes you did copy and paste, and no you didnt refer to the source until i have pointed this out.

The fact that many Christian rituals come from pagans, is just that - a fact.

lil bitchiness

(Ha ha ha), I did not copy and paste that message. I typed it from a book I have at home. I just wanted to be thorough. What's the problem? Are we to present facts, or gripe over whether I use the copy and paste method? Who cares? Sheesh man, you are killing me! Please name a few Christian rituals, and reveal your source. Thank you.

lil bitchiness

I just noticed... there is a comparitive study of world religions advertised on the lower right hand corner of this page. Check it out. Take care.

Originally posted by ushomefree
lil bitchiness

( Please name a few Christian rituals, and reveal your source. Thank you.

Christian rituals would be baptising, eating the blood and body, Trinity, believing in a resurrection....All stem from earlier sources of pagan beliefs...That's only a few, then there are the miracles, miraculous birth, water into wine, walking on water...all kinds of stories... 🙂

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm

You need to scroll down to the bottom of the page...

"Study of the world's religions will lead to an understanding of religious diversity.
Understanding of religion will lead to inter-religious dialogue.
Dialogue will lead to peace among religions..
Peace among religions will lead to peace among the nations

debbiejo

A ritual is a prescribed order of performing rites, or a procedure regularly followed. By this definition, used in conjuction with world religions, Christianity has nothing of the sort when applied to its core values. For example, Muslims must repeat a creed about Allah and Muhammad, recite certain prayers in Arabic five times a day, give to the needy, one month each year fast from food, drink, sex and smoking from sunrise to sunset and lastly, make a pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime. These are rituals that MUST be practiced to reach paradise. Christianity has no such rituals to obtain eternal life; only faith in Jesus Christ can save the Christian. Not good works.

Do Christians baptise converts? Yes, but it is not neccessary for slavation. Baptism is only an outward expression of inner change. The trinity, the resurrection and miracles performed by Jesus Christ have nothing to do with rituals, but have everything to do with beliefs. Christianity and Paganism may have simularites; all religions do, especially dealing with morality. However, that is secondary and outside of the issue. When faced with world religion, fundamentally, they are all indeed, very different. Just because human anatomy (with all its various parts) consists of two eyes, and two ears doesn't make me a field mouse.

Mithro and other so called deities? Do you believe in the opposing forces of good and evil? If so, what is the purpose of each? One strives in truth, and the other in deceit. Read the book of Revelation, or better yet, purchase "Revelation Unveiled" written by Tim LaHaye. The book simply breaks scripture down verse by verse to better understand it. The antichrist during the Great Tribulation makes every effort to decieve the masses into thinking that he is God, and will even demand worship of himself. Satan has been at work for a long time. Some religions are merely cultural based, and others were birthed by demonic spirits bent on decieving. Imposters are soon forgotten, but the truth always stands the test of time. Nobody talks about Mithro, and Greek Mythology lacks the power to change lives.

The three most powerful religions in the world are Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Monotheistic religions. And guess what? Each of those uses the Old Testament scriptures inspired by God. Two of the three deny the deity of Jesus Christ, while the other, simply recognizes fullfilled prophecy from the OT and wrote about it, much like a news journalist would any other event. One religion speaks the truth, while the others have members that are decieved.

I gotta eat dinner (ha ha ha)! Debbiejo... nice talk. I want to keep this friendly. If I missed anything, just tell me. Take care.

Originally posted by ushomefree

Mithro and other so called deities? Do you believe in the opposing forces of good and evil? If so, what is the purpose of each? One strives in truth, and the other in deceit. Read the book of Revelation, or better yet, purchase "Revelation Unveiled" written by Tim LaHaye. The book simply breaks scripture down verse by verse to better understand it. The antichrist during the Great Tribulation makes every effort to decieve the masses into thinking that he is God, and will even demand worship of himself. Satan has been at work for a long time. Some religions are merely cultural based, and others were birthed by demonic spirits bent on decieving. Imposters are soon forgotten, but the truth always stands the test of time. Nobody talks about Mithro, and Greek Mythology lacks the power to change lives.

No not Tim LaHayewallbash.....He has so much fiction in his writings.....a rich rich guy for all his propaganda....

The point is that Christianity was copied from old beliefs. Same miracles, and stories....I don't believe in demonic spirits, but only one source of power that has polarities just like the world works, in polarities...And Revelations were only visions, symbolic, not even proven to be written by the same John...The guy was on something probably too...j/k......But according to scripture the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed for a temple to be built for sacrifices to start up again, then then be put an in to....(which that scripture in Daniel was taken out of context) along with the covenant to be made...It clearly doesn't say a covenant to be made, it says a covenant to be confirmed, which means that there was already one made....Which isn't the case today......

Yep, I want to keep this friendly.......... 🙂

Now, If the Temple starts being built, I might reconsider.....LOL

debbiejo

The book "Revelation Unveiled" by Tim Lahaye is NOT a fictional book. It was written to help people understand the scriptures better. Revelation as you know contains alot of symbolism. His book is a learning tool (ha ha ha)! It is not a fictional story from Mr. Lahaye's mind. Sheesh... girl, do you think I am that lame? The book covers the entire book of Revelation. Yes, I know that Tim writes fictional books, but that is not ALL he writes. He also writes books on Apologetics, prophecy, and books about books of the Bible. Such is the case for "Revelation Unveiled."

The entire book of Revelation deals with prophecy. So when the book was written, John wouldn't be writing about history in his lifetime. John was writing about history to come... and the temple will be rebuilt. The bible has been right so far. Most prophecy (a fair percent would be 95%) left to be fullfilled deals with the end times. Prophecy is a tool that God uses to teach people that the Bible is true. But, some, even after the temple is rebuilt, will claim that scipture was munipulated and that scriptures was taken out of context (ha ha ha)! If we are alive to see it, you will see (ha ha ha)! People will say whatever. But, people that give it time and effort to research will be amazed. The criticism towards Christianity is never ending.

debbiejo, I'm probably going to dissapear for awhile? I will write soon. What happened to Finti? Where is he?

Originally posted by ushomefree
debbiejo

The book "Revelation Unveiled" by Tim Lahaye is NOT a fictional book. It was written to help people understand the scriptures better. Revelation as you know contains alot of symbolism. His book is a learning tool (ha ha ha)! It is not a fictional story from Mr. Lahaye's mind. Sheesh... girl, do you think I am that lame? The book covers the entire book of Revelation. Yes, I know that Tim writes fictional books, but that is not ALL he writes. He also writes books on Apologetics, prophecy, and books about books of the Bible. Such is the case for "Revelation Unveiled."

The entire book of Revelation deals with prophecy. So when the book was written, John wouldn't be writing about history in his lifetime. John was writing about history to come... and the temple will be rebuilt. The bible has been right so far. Most prophecy (a fair percent would be 95%) left to be fullfilled deals with the end times. Prophecy is a tool that God uses to teach people that the Bible is true. But, some, even after the temple is rebuilt, will claim that scipture was munipulated and that scriptures was taken out of context (ha ha ha)! If we are alive to see it, you will see (ha ha ha)! People will say whatever. But, people that give it time and effort to research will be amazed. The criticism towards Christianity is never ending.

debbiejo, I'm probably going to dissapear for awhile? I will write soon. What happened to Finti? Where is he?

Tim LaHaye is just another author to make money off his interpretation of the book of Rev....He's not a real researcher....I'll respond more on this later.....As for finti.......he left, had other things to attend to..........We'll miss his replies for sure.

debbiejo

What do you mean Tim Lahaye is not a real researcher? He is a minister, and NATIONALLY recognized speaker on Bible prophecy. He is president of Tim Lahaye Ministries, and founder of the Pre-Trib Research Center. Before you make claims about a book that someone wrote, you should read it first. C'mon, you haven't even read it and your making assumptions about it. How? Why? The book "Revelation Unveiled" was NOT purchased in the "Religious Fiction" section. It's NOT a fictional book debbiejo, and Tim is careful enough to voice other views regarding the meaning of scripture and so forth, NOT just his own. His book is very well written, and it has helped me learn alot about the book of Revelation. You should check it out, and reach your own conclusions. I bought it at Barnes & Nobles for 15.99. The book has 378 pages. You can have it read in a couple of days if not less. This book has nothing to do with the FICTIONAL left behind series. They are fictional. Everybody knows that. That is why they are in the "Religious Fictional" section. Give me a break will ya (ha ha ha)! 🙂 Why are you being so difficult?

I know all about Tim Lahayes books and his stance on pre-trib rapture, which speaking about a pre trib rapture, it isn't even in scripture...It's some verse taken out of context in Thess, I think and fitted in to make the theory work...Going back to Darby and Scholfields work....the early Christians didn't believe in a pre trib rapture.......I regard his books as fictional..........Not an original idea at all.....

Timothy LaHaye is a fundamentalist conservative Christian. That says enough.