Character Ownage

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ctrl+F
Replace 'WW' with 'Hal Jordan'.

Lanterns are weak against bricks!
Heralds are weak against Batman!

So Batman is the pedestal of a characters capabilities? Even though this version of Thor killed Hulk and Thing in combat, melted adamantium, etc... I should use this as evidence of his power level? I can keep going with this.

It's ok for me to use Venom amped Batman pushing Superman back and being able to make him bleed as an average for Supes durability?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5627414-9161743116-Batma.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5627415-0422376723-Batma.jpg

I can go much lower than this (Shadow Dragon who was then beat by Lady Shiva) if you want. Let me know.

Originally posted by carver9
So Batman is the pedestal of a characters capabilities? Even though this version of Thor killed Hulk and Thing in combat, melted adamantium, etc... I should use this as evidence of his power level? I can keep going with this.

It's ok for me to use Venom amped Batman pushing Superman back and being able to make him bleed as an average for Supes durability?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5627414-9161743116-Batma.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5627415-0422376723-Batma.jpg

I can go much lower than this (Shadow Dragon who was then beat by Lady Shiva) if you want. Let me know.

I want that.

Originally posted by carver9
So Batman is the pedestal of a characters capabilities? Even though this version of Thor killed Hulk and Thing in combat, melted adamantium, etc... I should use this as evidence of his power level? I can keep going with this.

It's ok for me to use Venom amped Batman pushing Superman back and being able to make him bleed as an average for Supes durability?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5627414-9161743116-Batma.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5627415-0422376723-Batma.jpg

I can go much lower than this (Shadow Dragon who was then beat by Lady Shiva) if you want. Let me know.

👆. All are canon in a comic,no?

You want to use all their feats,not just one offs.

That's ok. Batman has many feats of dealing with heralds.

Name one herald who has killed Batman, in a canon comic. I'll wait.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆. All are canon in a comic,no?

You want to use all their feats,not just one offs.

That's ok. Batman has many feats of dealing with heralds.

Name one herald who has killed Batman, in a canon comic. I'll wait.

With that said, are you/we in agreement that Thor, Surfer, Superman, Hulk, Wonder Woman along with any others are all within the street to meta tier based on the minimum showing of them being overwhelmed by street and meta street tier beings?

I can't think of a Herald that has killed Batman, Cap, Spiderman or Black Panther during combat.

I honestly don't see how Carver,you don't get it.

Lanterns can do XYZ. But when they face bricks,they lose.

This must mean Lanterns are mysteriously weak against bricks.

Heralds can do XYZ. But when they face Batman, they lose (ok, not always lol, but you get the point. He does well,when he's just a puny human).

This must mean....heralds are mysteriously weak against Batman, right??

Wait, no. It means they're jobbing. Look at all these wonderful scan dumps of heralds!

Well......gotta be consistent, Carv.

Originally posted by carver9
With that said, are you/we in agreement that Thor, Surfer, Superman, Hulk, Wonder Woman along with any others are all within the street to meta tier based on the minimum showing of them being overwhelmed by street and meta street tier beings?

I can't think of a Herald that has killed Batman, Cap, Spiderman or Black Panther during combat.

Lanterns do crap against bricks.

By this, you're either saying the bricks who beat them are above heralds (assuming Lanterns are heralds), or....that Lanterns are high metas or Low heralds or something.

Because they get overwhelmed by bricks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's.. EXACTLY what you're saying, lol.

Lanterns do crap against bricks.

By this, you're either saying the bricks who beat them are above heralds (assuming Lanterns are heralds), or....that Lanterns are high metas or Low heralds or something.

Because they get overwhelmed by bricks.

And this argument begins yet again. I'm going to shorten this up and if you don't get it, I will be done debating this topic. I, carver9 debate using the MAJORITY of a characters showing, not the minority. This is where we clash. You debate off of the minority, hell, you can have a 10 page debate using one showing as the characters official power level. You'll probably use Rhino showing against Surfer as his average while ignoring everything else that has went on with the character. I do not do this. This is why we clash. Lanterns get their head caved in MAJORITY OF THE TIME by bricks. Even though this is true, you'll use that one instance of them beating Mongul to debunk my argument. This isn't logical debating to me but to you it is and I'm ok with that. This is why you keep mentioning the Batman and Wonder Woman showing, because you look at the minority while ignoring the majority. Again, if this is the way you debate, good for you. Kind of like you using Midnighter opening doors in every vs thread he is in. I don't have to agree with the way you debate Darksaint, lol, if I feel like the majority outweighs the minority, I'm good with that. If you feel like one showing dictates a person's power level, live with it but I'm sticking by what I said.

And my argument is that the MAJORITY of Batman's showings against heralds shows him doing well.

Hell, probably all his showings with heralds are good, lol. He hurts Superman. Takes blows from WW. Steals Jordan's ring. Destroys things Flash can't. Uppercuts blitzing Zoom. Disappears from Gotham's sight.

And that's all just n52, lol, off the top of my head.

You make a special case for bricks and Lanterns. That's fine.

I make a special case for Batman and heralds.

How can you not see the standards here?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Tbh i hope the reveal is death was no longer amused with Thanos and fled the universe.

Also looks like Surfer has the annihilation wave behind him

Yeah I couldn't seem to piece that together. Like why are Anni's bugs trailing him? Never mind the idea of how he became the Fallen One, as in the title given to him.

Death can't flee, because it's presence is omniversal. Wherever Life exists, Death has to exist as well.

It looked like Banner to me. We all know that Marvel is going to bring Banner back. Cho is corny, I mean what's his deal anyway? He has absolutely no reason to have his own title. What is his actual purpose?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Hell, probably all his showings with heralds are good, lol.

Don't exaggerate.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah I couldn't seem to piece that together. Like why are Anni's bugs trailing him? Never mind the idea of how he became the Fallen One, as in the title given to him.

Death can't flee, because it's presence is omniversal. Wherever Life exists, Death has to exist as well.

It looked like Banner to me. We all know that Marvel is going to bring Banner back. Cho is corny, I mean what's his deal anyway? He has absolutely no reason to have his own title. What is his actual purpose?

Affirmative action.

Grab new readers.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Don't exaggerate.

He certainly does better than a human should do.

When he fought n52 Lobo (the one who fought Sinestro) he sliced his fingers off before he could even react.

Heralds, who push planets or whatever, should turn him into a pink smear.

Yet he's blocking blows from bloodlusted Amazons (not WW; Artemis and her axe), deflecting Jonathan's punches (when under Manchester Black's influence, and whose punches were drawing blood from Superman) etc.

And yes, Grundy.

Does he do shite against streets and metas? Of course. Not saying he doesn't.

But against HERALDS? He does pretty well. His average is good.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And my argument is that the MAJORITY of Batman's showings against heralds shows him doing well.

Hell, probably all his showings with heralds are good, lol. He hurts Superman. Takes blows from WW. Steals Jordan's ring. Destroys things Flash can't. Uppercuts blitzing Zoom. Disappears from Gotham's sight.

And that's all just n52, lol, off the top of my head.

You make a special case for bricks and Lanterns. That's fine.

I make a special case for Batman and heralds.

How can you not see the standards here?

Can you post those non context scans of Batman "beating" Heralds so that we can put him in the tier he belongs.

Scans of him hurting Superman with his fist.
Scans of him withstanding punches from Wonder Woman and being ok.
Scans of him stealing Hal Jordan ring during combat.
Scans of him beating Flash.
Scans of him beating Zoom.
Scans of him beating Gotham.

If I post a character only SINGLE showing of him running across a state in the Blink of an eye. What tier would you place him in?

I said he does well against heralds.

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Affirmative action.

Grab new readers.

Good point. Just wish they gave him his own power set. But very good
point.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I said he does well against heralds.

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

I know what you said but doing well doesn't translate into someone being = to or even putting them in a different tier because Thor does well against Celestials but that doesn't mean he is abstract or Skyfather. Lanterns get BEAT by bricks, bricks doesn't do well against them, lol. Wolverine does well against Heralds as well but he still a meta. Now again, if you can't mention BEAT in any of this then this debate is a waste of both of our time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But against HERALDS? He does pretty well. His average is good.

He sure has good showings, not denying that, but also the ones in which he gets treated as a flea...

That's why "probably all his showings" part bothered me.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He sure has good showings, not denying that, but also the ones in which he gets treated as a flea...

That's why "probably all his showings" part bothered me.

👆

Originally posted by carver9
I know what you said but doing well doesn't translate into someone being = to or even putting them in a different tier because Thor does well against Celestials but that doesn't mean he is abstract or Skyfather. Lanterns get BEAT by bricks, bricks doesn't do well against them, lol. Wolverine does well against Heralds as well but he still a meta. Now again, if you can't mention BEAT in any of this then this debate is a waste of both of our time.

If you can't see on average,what heralds are capable of...

Then adjust it to a pink squishy human....

Thor does well against Celestials,true. What tier are they at? Let's say Skyfather,just one tier above. Being generous here.

How does Thor (Odinson, btw) do against other Skyfathers? Odin,Galactus' etc?

I'm not talking about a single instance. Against multiple heralds.

And not just any heralds. Some of the guys and girls I named are the top dogs. The highest of heralds.

Being tapped by them,would explode a human into pink mist lol. Just a shrug of their shoulders would send humans flying.

Wolverine at least has an indestructible skeleton,hundreds of years of fighting experience and skill,a HF second to very few, and some measure of speed.

Batman is a human.

So again.

Either Batman's showings against heralds mean the heralds are overrated;
Batman is actually a high meta/low herald lol; or
PIS to show a good fight.

I am inclined to say its the third option. Agreed?

And Lanterns are used as whipping boys against bricks, because you can show bricks smashing as many constructs as you want without ever causing permanent damage.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If you can't see on average,what heralds are capable of...

Then adjust it to a pink squishy human....

Thor does well against Celestials,true. What tier are they at? Let's say Skyfather,just one tier above. Being generous here.

How does Thor (Odinson, btw) do against other Skyfathers? Odin,Galactus' etc?

I'm not talking about a single instance. Against multiple heralds.

And not just any heralds. Some of the guys and girls I named are the top dogs. The highest of heralds.

Being tapped by them,would explode a human into pink mist lol. Just a shrug of their shoulders would send humans flying.

Wolverine at least has an indestructible skeleton,hundreds of years of fighting experience and skill,a HF second to very few, and some measure of speed.

Batman is a human.

So again.

Either Batman's showings against heralds mean the heralds are overrated;
Batman is actually a high meta/low herald lol; or
PIS to show a good fight.

I am inclined to say its the third option. Agreed?

And Lanterns are used as whipping boys against bricks, because you can show bricks smashing as many constructs as you want without ever causing permanent damage.

Do you have scans of these Heralds tapping a human making them explode or am I using real life logic here?