Quinlan Vos vs Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by kamikz
🙂

I don't think Lukes potential got that high with 8 months of jedi traning, neither do I think he could have masterd a style. That would take over a decade. He also didn't have much access to traning as normal jedi did nor much experience.

I'm quite pleased, it's enjoying to debate this with you. 🙂

Edit: this got a little ****ed up, me replys are in the quote line, sorry. (under your previous posts, you have to read at the dark area).

Thank you, i also enjoy debating with you

Well if you think about it anakin at rots actually secumbed to the dark side with sidious's influence alone. While Luke was being seducted by both his dad and sids and still he stood up to them and refused to become a sith. that shows true power because the average undertrained jedi would defintely have secummbed, in fact if you replace luke in that situation with any jedi with 8 months or a little more experience, they would not do nearly as well as luke did, you got to hand it to luke, hes a fast learner lol, with only 8 months his power rivals that with a jedi with many years of training. Anakin after 10 years of training was merely a padawan, while luke was a knight after 8 months. his maturity rose much faster than anakins.

Originally posted by kamikz
It makes no sense at all that Luke Skywalker, with 8 months of traning could be better than AOTC Anakin, who had more potential than Luke and had studied in 10 years with masters instead of reading instructions at Ben Kenobis place. And Vader is stronger and better than AOTC Anakin, much better.

Actually it does. Try training a child in something and an adult in something. The adult will learn it and remember it much better than the child will. Training Jedi from birth makes them better in the long run by establishing things like morals and values, and teaching them things like diplomatic skills and training them in things like patience. Anakin was trained to be a diplomat like all oher PT Jedi, Luke was trained to be a weapon ready to kill Vader.

Luke also has the Kaiburr Crystall which makes him much stronger than he otherwise would be.

Originally posted by kamikz
Darth Vader was most likley wanting to turn Luke to the dark side and used defence instead of offensive (which was his primary style, so he wasent as good on defence). Luke was actually going offensive in the beginning but later realised, after hearing Palpatine, that he didn't and wouldent fight his father.

Vader used form five which was based on form three. Vader's form is good at defence. Luke was fighting Vader in the beginning, but he was holding back too. I don't know why people always assume Luke was going his hardest and Vader wasn't. Until Vader started talking about Leia, Luke was holding back because he wasn't there to kill Vader anymore, he wanted to turn him to the light just as much as Vader wanted to turn him to the dark. When Luke got pissed and floored Vader was when he went as hard as he could and their is no proof that Vader wasn't trying as hard as he could anymore.

Originally posted by kamikz
When Luke was going apeshit on Vader, he left himself open many times where Vader had the possibility to strike like he did in ESB but he didn't. He wanted Luke to turn to the dark side, when finding his weak point and acctually making him use his dark energies, why kill him?

Vader wanted to stay alive more than he wanted Luke to come to the darkside. There were times when Luke could have killed Vader during the fight, as their are in all movie fights. You have to remember that you are viewing this from the outside and don't have to concentrate on fighting. If you were in that situation, you aren't going to perfectly see and take advantage of every opportunity because you can't see them. Same with Luke, Anakin, Obi-wan, Mace, Sidious, and Yoda. They all had opportunities that we can see with our outside view but they can't because they are caught in the middle of a fight.

Originally posted by kamikz
Luke might have broken through his defence but if Vader had gone offensive he would have killed Luke right there. More traning, experience, strenght, skill etc. And Luke was hardly 80% of Palpatines potential there, Obi-Wan defeated Anakin but was hardly more than 80% of Palpatines potential.

Problem is that Vader is crippled. He may have had more time to train, but he is still crippled.

Also note that you are assuming that Vader was at his peak in ep3. There is no proof of this. Anakin wasn't 80% as strong as Sidious in ep3, unless Dooku was significantly more powerful than Sidious, seeing as how easily Dooku pwned Anakins equal, Obi-wan. Nor is there any proof that "Luke was hardly 80% of Palpatines potential there".

In the end we got to realize that Luke is destined to become more powerful than Anakin as it turns out. So it wouldnt make sense for Luke to die against someone like Quinlan vos its not his destiny, the writers of that fight would never let luke die.

Quinlan b!tch slaps Luke with his precise speed.

lol that would be funny

Quinlan pwns Luke.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Quinlan pwns Luke.

Do you realize that luke can create a blackhole and push quinlan into it, no contest

You must be joking, right? Read the first post; it's RotJ.

yeh i was joking

No you werent 😱

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Actually it does. Try training a child in something and an adult in something. The adult will learn it and remember it much better than the child will. Training Jedi from birth makes them better in the long run by establishing things like morals and values, and teaching them things like diplomatic skills and training them in things like patience. Anakin was trained to be a diplomat like all oher PT Jedi, Luke was trained to be a weapon ready to kill Vader.

Luke also has the Kaiburr Crystall which makes him much stronger than he otherwise would be.

Vader used form five which was based on form three. Vader's form is good at defence. Luke was fighting Vader in the beginning, but he was holding back too. I don't know why people always assume Luke was going his hardest and Vader wasn't. Until Vader started talking about Leia, Luke was holding back because he wasn't there to kill Vader anymore, he wanted to turn him to the light just as much as Vader wanted to turn him to the dark. When Luke got pissed and floored Vader was when he went as hard as he could and their is no proof that Vader wasn't trying as hard as he could anymore.

Vader wanted to stay alive more than he wanted Luke to come to the darkside. There were times when Luke could have killed Vader during the fight, as their are in all movie fights. You have to remember that you are viewing this from the outside and don't have to concentrate on fighting. If you were in that situation, you aren't going to perfectly see and take advantage of every opportunity because you can't see them. Same with Luke, Anakin, Obi-wan, Mace, Sidious, and Yoda. They all had opportunities that we can see with our outside view but they can't because they are caught in the middle of a fight.

Problem is that Vader is crippled. He may have had more time to train, but he is still crippled.

Also note that you are assuming that Vader was at his peak in ep3. There is no proof of this. Anakin wasn't 80% as strong as Sidious in ep3, unless Dooku was significantly more powerful than Sidious, seeing as how easily Dooku pwned Anakins equal, Obi-wan. Nor is there any proof that "Luke was hardly 80% of Palpatines potential there".

1. Ok that makes sense, but still. I saw a martial arts contest where a 10 year old kid was using a staff, he was absolutly excellent. He had trained almost 5 years.
Then there was a competition later where a grown man that had trained for about 3 years wielded a staff, and was much worse.

So there are differences, Anakin could, despite being 9 and no traning, use the force very well, better or as good as Luke could in ANH.
Anakin then trained in 10 years, possibly every day and with many different masters to be able to talk to, and one to train him all the time.
Sure Luke is older but he didn't have access to the same sort of training so I doubt it would matter much really.

2. Still he didn't seem to be able to use any force powers during the fight, not many can and I doubt it would make a difference.

3. So neither were aiming to kill each other in the beginning, but later on Luke sure aims to kill him. Vader was overpowerd by Luke, but I doubt that would happend if Vader was the one going offensive.
Vader has more experience, more training, mastery over the force, mastery over his style, Luke was told to kill Vader, Vader was told to turn Luke. Even though Luke tried to bring Vader to the light side he lost his patience and tried to kill him instead.
I think this battle reflects the one between Dooku and Anakin, Dooku/Vader is told to loose because the other one is going to be more powerful.

I don't think Vader was trying to stay alive hard at all, doesent he in a novel say that the thing he hates most in the galaxy is himself.
I don't think he cared about what happened, he just wanted his son to have a fate.

Really got to go to bed now, only 3 hours left until I'm going to school, good night everyone.

It's so close but I think Luke could probably do it cause he was over 80% of Sidious.

Oh, Lord. . .

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke also has the Kaiburr Crystall which makes him much stronger than he otherwise would be.

Have you read Splinter in the Mind's Eye (sp?)? The Kaiburr Crystal turns out to be a power tool in empowering the user's tie to the Force...for the purpose of HEALING. And away from Mimban, it does very little.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
Do you realize that luke can create a blackhole and push quinlan into it, no contest

Luke cannot create a black hole, read NJO.

You know it would probably be more helpful for the guy if you just told him that in NJO Luke controls a black hole, rather then just tell him to find it himself.

One hand of the argument:

Quinlan was trained in the age of the Jedi. He fought plenty of fully trained Masters and Knights. He spars with Mace, fights and almost defeats Tholme, kills Skorr, kills Sora Bulq (both darksiders), defeats K'Kruhk...(dont want to read through the comics again, those I remember). He has a capable fighting ability when using the darkside, and has the Jedi training under his belt. He has a few forms to use as well.

Other side:

Luke was trained without Jedi training. He only really became a Jedi at RotJ. But since he is the son of Anakin, he inherits the raw power of the Force. Using the darkside he defeats Vader easily, one of the most powerful Force users.

Does a formally trained Jedi with lots of experience, beat a fresh Jedi with little training, but with enough raw power to take on and beat a Sith effortlessly?

Originally posted by Mišt
One hand of the argument:

Quinlan was trained in the age of the Jedi. He fought plenty of fully trained Masters and Knights. He spars with Mace, fights and almost defeats Tholme, kills Skorr, kills Sora Bulq (both darksiders), defeats K'Kruhk...(dont want to read through the comics again, those I remember). He has a capable fighting ability when using the darkside, and has the Jedi training under his belt. He has a few forms to use as well.

Other side:

Luke was trained without Jedi training. He only really became a Jedi at RotJ. But since he is the son of Anakin, he inherits the raw power of the Force. Using the darkside he defeats Vader easily, one of the most powerful Force users.

Does a formally trained Jedi with lots of experience, beat a fresh Jedi with little training, but with enough raw power to take on and beat a Sith effortlessly?

he was not one of the most powerful force users, he rarely used force powers.

Are you talking about Vader? Because throughout the PT, Anakin is regarded as pretty much the best Jedi because of his potential in the Force. Unfortunately he doesnt reach that potential. He is still powerful whether he uses Force powers or not.

Yes even when weakned vader still possess considerable talent and power. Vader was very experienced and faught many force users and other enemies just like you said Quinlan did so it would be similar to fighting vader wouldnt it for luke. Except quinlan's raw power will probably be weaker than both luke and vaders. So luke has this.