Wealth Limit

I'm just going to make one contribution to this discussion:
YOU MISQUOTED CHURCHILL! Churchill said something very similar to that but it was not about capitalism. It was about democracy.
For the record...
Churchill on Democracy: "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time."
Churchill on Capitalism: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

Originally posted by Zarathustra
I'm just going to make one contribution to this discussion:
YOU MISQUOTED CHURCHILL! Churchill said something very similar to that but it was not about capitalism. It was about democracy.
For the record...
Churchill on Democracy: "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time."
Churchill on Capitalism: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

Please read what I wrote more carefully. I began my post with:

I do feel we live in the greatest country in history, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, capitalism is the worst possible system upon which to base an economy...except for all the other systems.

Thanks for the full quote, though. Isn't the Net wonderful?

Originally posted by silver_tears
I'm pretty sure he meant survival of the fittest. That is the natural flow, you're better than someone else then you should have something to show for it.
We have to admit it, everyone is not at the same level, and by putting a cap on wealth that's basically like saying your efforts are pointless. There would be no such to succeed anymore.
And what about professional athletes? With a limit to how much they can make, they do not play as well.

Well, I'm a successful person but I don't make a whole lot of money nor do I want to. I walk up EVERY morning with motivation and creative thoughts. The thought that the only rewards we strive for in life are the most money we can make is a very greedy take on human nature. Personally, I find satisfaction with talking to interesting and stimulating people. I find satisfaction with kissing a beautiful women (Jennifer) or wanting to. I find satisfaction in running 10 miles and drinking a beer afterward. I find satisfaction in bench pressing 225 pds. I find satisfaction in eating a delicious lunch. I don't find satisfaction in trying to make as much money as I can and brag about how hard I worked to get it.

Originally posted by silver_tears
What if a person came from an impoverished family and made it to the top. Would you be willing to cap that too even with all they had to get through?

I think that is unfair, if someone has the determination and drive to succeed, no one should take that away.
But like I said again, I don't mean succeed by fraud or other illegal means.

Yes I believe even if someone who worked out of poverty to become a wealthy person they too should be subjected to a cap. Why should they be treated any different? But people like athletes who do work to get out of poverty aren't working in their community to get that wealth. People from poverty who work in their community and get lots of wealth usually give back to their community and if they don't they are probably just sucking the money from their neighbors.
Determination and drive is good. Its especially good when those qualities are used to make the quality of life better for ALL people. Determination and drive to get rich at the expense of other peoples health is wrong.

IMO: With regard to athletes--and for that matter, also movie stars and rock stars--making as much money as they do: some believe that, hey, if we wanna pay them so much, that's our choice. Yes, this is true (and please note, human beings don't always make the wisest choices). It just seems to me that something is not quite right, values-wise, when we pay people who basically provide entertainment--ie, escape from reality--so much more than we pay people who help prepare us for reality (eg, teachers).

I once heard, many moons ago (perhaps someone can help here), a quote to this effect:
"What do you expect from a society that puts real lemon juice in its dish-washing liquid and artificial lemon flavor in its lemonade?"

Again, for the record: God Bless this great nation. I only hope that, in time, we will find a better way to manage our affairs.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
But you see..there is a certain degree of "Socialism" even in "Capalist" societies...just not to the extreme of Soviet Style Marxism. For example..in the United States, they're are all types of "Checks and Balances" in place that are used prevent any one individual(s) from become to wealthy/powerful. Think about it, we have laws in place that prevent monopolizing, as well as a progressive tax system. A true Capitalist society wouldn't have these things. Imagine if the United States had a flat tax system. The gap between the Rich and Poor would be even wider.

There are rules against monopolies because monopolies actually restrict the free market. I'm not arguing that no regulation is needed, just that financial success/failure should have no limit.

Originally posted by meep-meep
Okay the natural flow of things is people capitalizing on other less fortunate people. Is that what you're saying?

Is it really any better for the less fortunate to capitalize on the hard work of the rich? As long as the money is earned in an honest and legal way, they deserve every penny. Why should they be told they can't succeed past a certain limit cause that would be greedy? At least they are earning their money; we aren't just handing it over to them for winning our sympathy.

Originally posted by Mindship
IMO: With regard to athletes--and for that matter, also movie stars and rock stars--making as much money as they do: some believe that, hey, if we wanna pay them so much, that's our choice. Yes, this is true (and please note, human beings don't always make the wisest choices). It just seems to me that something is not quite right, values-wise, when we pay people who basically provide entertainment--ie, escape from reality--so much more than we pay people who help prepare us for reality (eg, teachers).

I once heard, many moons ago (perhaps someone can help here), a quote to this effect:
"What do you expect from a society that puts real lemon juice in its dish-washing liquid and artificial lemon flavor in its lemonade?"

Again, for the record: God Bless this great nation. I only hope that, in time, we will find a better way to manage our affairs.

true dat.

Originally posted by Mindship
IMO: With regard to athletes--and for that matter, also movie stars and rock stars--making as much money as they do: some believe that, hey, if we wanna pay them so much, that's our choice. Yes, this is true (and please note, human beings don't always make the wisest choices). It just seems to me that something is not quite right, values-wise, when we pay people who basically provide entertainment--ie, escape from reality--so much more than we pay people who help prepare us for reality (eg, teachers).

I once heard, many moons ago (perhaps someone can help here), a quote to this effect:
"What do you expect from a society that puts real lemon juice in its dish-washing liquid and artificial lemon flavor in its lemonade?"

Again, for the record: God Bless this great nation. I only hope that, in time, we will find a better way to manage our affairs.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Flat tax rate as in the same amount of money is payed by everyone or flat tax rate as in the same percentage regardless of income? The first is a bit ridiculous, and I don't see how the second is at all socialist.

There are rules against monopolies because monopolies actually restrict the free market. I'm not arguing that no regulation is needed, just that financial success/failure should have no limit.
That's exactly what the natural flow of things is, actually. The strong prosper, many times at the expense of the weak.

Is it really any better for the less fortunate to capitalize on the hard work of the rich? As long as the money is earned in an honest and legal way, they deserve every penny. Why should they be told they can't succeed past a certain limit cause that would be greedy? At least they are earning their money; we aren't just handing it over to them for winning our sympathy.

So a person who works hard their whole life and never becomes a millionare doesn't deserve to be a millionare? Do they need to be a millionare to be happy? No. Are millionares happy? dunno but seems like the buly things to make them happy.
My point in cae you missed it is that very rich people who worked hard their whole lives deserve to be happy because they work. They don't deserve to own more than 100 people they employ.

Also, to Mindship: Interesting quote. I never heard it before but interesting.

Originally posted by meep-meep
So a person who works hard their whole life and never becomes a millionare doesn't deserve to be a millionare? Do they need to be a millionare to be happy? No. Are millionares happy? dunno but seems like the buly things to make them happy.
My point in cae you missed it is that very rich people who worked hard their whole lives deserve to be happy because they work. They don't deserve to own more than 100 people they employ.

I believe that this might jsut be one of the worst ideas I ever heard. Why should anyone work when they have aquired the limit? And face it, we do need the people who are able to aquire that much money, they don't get the money for nothing they get it cause they are worth iot, maybe not all, but most do. I think a little socialised capitalism, meaning that there is some sort of social security is necessary, but except for that everyone should be allowed to aquire as muh wealth as they wish.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
For the most part no. They don't deserve to be a millionare. The only people who deserve to be millionares are those who not only work hard but are smart enough to apply that work on something that is going to get them rich. Busting your ass at some dead end job doesn't make you worthy of being a millionare. I work hard, but I don't deserve to be a millionare cause I haven't contributed anything that would make a million dollars. If I'm not creating a hefty profit in some way or another than what makes you think I deserve said profit?

So people who are smarter deserve to capitalize on others stupidity? I consider myself to be as intelligent as anyone but not better than anyone. I am not entitled to make morre money than someone who doesn't have as good an education as myself or is from a less wealthy family, or from someone who doesn't have the resources to become a millionare. Using your argument someone who capitalizes on the fact that many people are drug addicts and gets rich off of dealing drugs and works hard making and dealing those drugs "deserves" to be rich. Just because you work in a "dead-end" job doesn't mean you aren't smart are have drive. It sounds to me like you are just unhappy. There are people who work in the same not0so-glamorous job for their whole lives and they don't complain about how dead end their job is. If you are surrounded by good people it doesn't matter. Now if you are being paid shit than you do deserve to be unhappy. You deserve the right to be paid at least a living wage. In fact it's the people who make so much money that you should be trying to talk with about your situation. They don't like to talk though so sometimes you have to get their attention through organization.

Dealing with drugs is a whole different thing, it is dangerous and a threat to whoever uses them. To cfapitalize on that is illegal. Of course you are not allowed to make money off of illegal dealings. But if you are just better in one way or another than other people, and those other people actually decide to give you money for your skills, you sure as hell are allowed to take that money if you please. So if you don't become a millionaire you are either not good enough (regarding your circumstances) or you do not want to. And puitting a limit to what you can achieve will jsut make our societies fail eventually, it is against huian nature and there are only so many who can actually form an elite to keep things going.

Originally posted by meep-meep
So people who are smarter deserve to capitalize on others stupidity? I consider myself to be as intelligent as anyone but not better than anyone. I am not entitled to make morre money than someone who doesn't have as good an education as myself or is from a less wealthy family, or from someone who doesn't have the resources to become a millionare. Using your argument someone who capitalizes on the fact that many people are drug addicts and gets rich off of dealing drugs and works hard making and dealing those drugs "deserves" to be rich. Just because you work in a "dead-end" job doesn't mean you aren't smart are have drive. It sounds to me like you are just unhappy. There are people who work in the same not0so-glamorous job for their whole lives and they don't complain about how dead end their job is. If you are surrounded by good people it doesn't matter. Now if you are being paid shit than you do deserve to be unhappy. You deserve the right to be paid at least a living wage. In fact it's the people who make so much money that you should be trying to talk with about your situation. They don't like to talk though so sometimes you have to get their attention through organization.

and your not rich either

Originally posted by Bardock42
Dealing with drugs is a whole different thing, it is dangerous and a threat to whoever uses them. To cfapitalize on that is illegal. Of course you are not allowed to make money off of illegal dealings. But if you are just better in one way or another than other people, and those other people actually decide to give you money for your skills, you sure as hell are allowed to take that money if you please. So if you don't become a millionaire you are either not good enough (regarding your circumstances) or you do not want to. And puitting a limit to what you can achieve will jsut make our societies fail eventually, it is against huian nature and there are only so many who can actually form an elite to keep things going.

I think you mossed the entire point of my comment...

Originally posted by soleran30
and your not rich either

So? What is your point?

Originally posted by meep-meep
I think you mossed the entire point of my comment...

I think you don't have much point to your comment.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you don't have much point to your comment.

yup seriously word!

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you don't have much point to your comment.

Well you are entitled to your opinion.